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Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by nicpottier on Thursday February 20, 2014 @02:51AM (#7269505)
Ya.. that is definitely the takeaway. If you address all platforms, your market is suddenly both under served and absolutely huge.
Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by netcan on Thursday February 20, 2014 @05:04AM (#7269969)
One such "platform" is made up of the 80% of android phones that are cheap and basic with small data plans and limited access to slow wifi.

The anecdotes from the 80s & 90s when annual PC sales for any given year were a substantial portion of the overall PCs in use at the time are interesting. The realization that software could be written for the newest machine and it would run everywhere soon enough is not directly applicable to the smartphone market. I think that out of collective habit, many apps assume that building for this year's flagship models is the best course. It may be, but it effectively means your market is much smaller, especially for free, network effect apps.

These apps and their ecosystems rise and fall fast. Tablets & smartphones are spreading downmarket with devices being sold today @ 10% of the first androids.

A $50 phone won't run everything, but it will run some things - useful things.

Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by fidotron on Thursday February 20, 2014 @09:55AM (#7271000)
It depends on your revenue model. If you want to charge for the app (or make money via IAP) then newer devices are better, since those users are the ones that spend most of the actual money. If you're relying on network effects and giving it away then you have to hit everything.

The really fun thing about WhatsApp is that it is essentially a product for the developing world, and to make money doing that you have to be seriously efficient.

Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by josephlord on Thursday February 20, 2014 @05:35AM (#7270054)
Are these going to be Google Android or AOSP based? Is there a clear baseline to target and distribution strategy to cover this mass of devices?
Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by alien3d on Thursday February 20, 2014 @06:43AM (#7270271)
i m using lenovo a 269i android 2.3.6 .it does do lot of thing for 50 phone.i no need high end graphic card.it just a phone which i can call. whatsapp and gps.enough for me.
Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by corresation on Thursday February 20, 2014 @07:34AM (#7270414)
the 80% of android phones that are cheap and basic with small data plans and limited access to slow wifi

Ignoring the fictional statistics, the cheap devices (e.g. Xiaomi) in countries like China still tend to be surprisingly powerful, and you hardly need to design down to them. And it's a rare app, beyond something like video conferencing, that puts any real burden on connectivity.

Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by netcan on Thursday February 20, 2014 @10:39AM (#7271275)
It is pretty much fictional, or rather arbitrary because you can draw the line between low and high end wherever you want. I actually got it from here:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/11/12/idc-data-shows-66-...

And it turns out I misrepresented the fictional statistic. The "real" number is 66%. Though I suppose if you count older mid tier models (this counts sales) still in use, 80% might be pretty close.

IMO you still need to design dow a bit, especially for data poor users. Also smaller screens. In some cases I think craigslist is the thing to emulate.

Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by corresation on Thursday February 20, 2014 @04:46PM (#7273855)
The "real" number is 66%

While I don't normally agree with dismissing something from the source -- in this case Apple Insider -- the way that the article digs to try to generate their manufactured numbers borders on comical. Secondly, the metric that it is "junk" (the article's word) because the ASP is $200+ is asinine, if you will. As is the notion that such makes it a "feature phone" (where ASPs were in the LOW double digits).

A $200 device in many Asian markets is a decidedly premium device. The Xiaomi Redmi, for instance, is a $139 (retail!) decidedly decent mid-range device. In no way does anyone have to design down at all for devices like that, the notion being absurd.

Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by netcan on Friday February 21, 2014 @04:31AM (#7276112)
I agree. OTOH, justifying with facts that there are a lot of Android phones in use that are several steps under the S4 in terms of hardware and data/wifi availability & affordability is almost superflous.

Androids are penetrating markets that were never penetrated by PCs or the web or even residential electricity.

Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by stefan_kendall on Thursday February 20, 2014 @08:16AM (#7270567)
You absolutely need to "design down" if you want to support all of android. Go build an app with a reasonable number of users and you'll learn this the hard way.
Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by corresation on Thursday February 20, 2014 @09:04AM (#7270741)
Good thing I never said "all of android", as there will always be edges that in many cases aren't even worth targeting.

I did, however, say that many of the cheap phones are quite powerful. And they are. And as someone who has several widely deployed games on Android -- one category where there is much more demands than categories like WhatsApp -- it is absolutely no problem at all.

I generally test things on the Nexus One just as a bottom end comparator. Compared to many of the devices from bottom-tier manufacturers now, the Nexus One is grossly underpowered. It is always surprising what it can run with gusto.

Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by SunboX on Thursday February 20, 2014 @04:11AM (#7269775)
That's the key of Firefox OS. Use well known technology and try to go into these markets.
Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by pjmlp on Thursday February 20, 2014 @04:21AM (#7269817)
My problem with Firefox OS is that they don't add any value over what is already possible in modern mobile OS. All of them have a web browser of some sort.
Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by SunboX on Thursday February 20, 2014 @04:46AM (#7269901)
It's not about what is possible todo, it's about replacing feature phones in developing markets. They can't effort "cheap" androids, neither iphones. And if they get the money for an "cheap" android they don't have money for the development equipment.
Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by pjmlp on Thursday February 20, 2014 @05:00AM (#7269953)
My old cheap feature phone had a good enough browser already.
Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by JetSpiegel on Thursday February 20, 2014 @07:00AM (#7270317)
I think so, but having a little more RAM can't hurt. I can't even load up 2 HN pages at the same time.
Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by pjmlp on Thursday February 20, 2014 @08:01AM (#7270509)
Do you also read both at the same time?
Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by JetSpiegel on Thursday February 20, 2014 @08:41AM (#7270646)
No, it's just convenience. :)

Caching 2 pages in RAM also means instant undo when I open the story link.

Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by testernew on Thursday February 20, 2014 @07:00AM (#7270316)
Ok
Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by SunboX on Thursday February 20, 2014 @06:29AM (#7270223)
"Firefox OS - Answering global challenges" slides by Christian Heilmann:

http://www.slideshare.net/cheilmann/developerweek

Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by waps on Thursday February 20, 2014 @07:41AM (#7270437)
I think this is a pipe dream. Cheapest android cellphone is only $35 [1]. That is only possible because they're leftover stock of a phone that was produced using leftover stock of an ex-android phone chipset.

[1] http://dx.com/s/android%2bphone?PriceSort=up&category=511

Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by testernew on Thursday February 20, 2014 @07:00AM (#7270314)
Yes
Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by diydsp on Thursday February 20, 2014 @10:32AM (#7271227)
Thinking about what is technically possible has been very limiting for me. The value proposition of Firefox OS is that apps will run on all phones, unlike the current iOS vs. Java schism.

Of course it is likely to have other issues, but don't limit yourself to saying what is possible... think about the cost to actually deploy that possibility.

Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by tim333 on Thursday February 20, 2014 @12:30PM (#7272178)
I'm not sure I really see that. Firefox os apps are basically html5/javascript and you can run that on Android and iOS at the moment using phonegap and the like. The advantage of a Firefox phone over a cheap Android seems a bit marginal although it is proper open source which may matter to some people.
Re:Your Path to a $16B exit? Build a J2ME App by JoeAltmaier on Thursday February 20, 2014 @09:53AM (#7270991)
Market isn't warm bodies, its money. Cash. Margins. How much is this app making off of each guy in India/Africa/China? I'm guessing, very little.

So be very, very careful about trying to 'serve' that demographic.