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Re:Joel: Five Easy Ways to Fail (in a Software Project) by mdemare on Thursday October 25, 2007 @12:08PM (#72545)
I love Joel for promoting the idea that working more than 40 hours a week is unproductive, but it does seem contrary to the startup mentality.

Would startups be better off if their founders only worked 40 hours a week? I don't think so - working crazy hours is a competitive advantage of startups.

Of course, motivation is the big difference, but that's a whole different argument than Joel is making.

Re:Joel: Five Easy Ways to Fail (in a Software Project) by hello_moto on Thursday October 25, 2007 @01:08PM (#72575)
Joel's experience working for Microsoft shaped his mind. It has been MS trademark to start slow but building a _SURE_ thing with good architecture (security is a different story).

How old is MS Office now?

Compare that with Silicon Valley startup mentality: code like crazy, take shortcuts, release early, flipped your company and let the new hires figured out the mess.

(Or you could opt for re-writes like the Reddit people have been doing since their inception).

Re:Joel: Five Easy Ways to Fail (in a Software Project) by michaelneale on Thursday October 25, 2007 @05:05PM (#72665)
Also startups are short bursts relatively speaking, coding binges etc. He is talking about something sustainable for a career (of sorts).
Re:Joel: Five Easy Ways to Fail (in a Software Project) by testapplication on Thursday October 25, 2007 @08:09PM (#72736)
Do you know anything about the early history of Microsoft?
Re:Joel: Five Easy Ways to Fail (in a Software Project) by palish on Friday October 26, 2007 @12:12PM (#72924)
Was Joel working for Microsoft during its early history?
Re:Joel: Five Easy Ways to Fail (in a Software Project) by timr on Friday October 26, 2007 @12:55PM (#72933)
Yes. He was responsible for VBA in Excel, amongst other things.
Re:Joel: Five Easy Ways to Fail (in a Software Project) by brlewis on Thursday October 25, 2007 @01:31PM (#72584)
I think spending more than 40 hours per week programming is unproductive, because of the mental exertion, but there's a lot more to launching a successful startup than programming.

Once you've expanded to the point where you have people who only program, Joel's advice is probably good: "encourage your staff to work a sane 40 hours per week" except for occasional bursts.

Re:Joel: Five Easy Ways to Fail (in a Software Project) by ntoshev on Thursday October 25, 2007 @03:49PM (#72633)
I find switching between programming and "business" tasks even harder than programming for many hours straight.
Re:Joel: Five Easy Ways to Fail (in a Software Project) by brianr on Monday October 29, 2007 @09:15AM (#73765)
Me too. I'm much more productive when I can focus on just one kind of task.
Re:Joel: Five Easy Ways to Fail (in a Software Project) by bootload on Friday October 26, 2007 @01:02AM (#72807)
"... but it does seem contrary to the startup mentality. ..."

Joel is a pretty smart businessman and a lot of the articles are written within the management of an established software company frame of mind. Remember that:

- FogCreek is not a startup

- FogBugz has a long ship cycle

- products developed are mature

- code base is being used over a long time frame

- good software takes 10 years anyway ~ http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000017.html

Quite the antithesis of what you might associate with Startups discussed here.

Re:Joel: Five Easy Ways to Fail (in a Software Project) by breck on Thursday October 25, 2007 @12:27PM (#72556)
If you're doing a startup, your life will be the startup. It won't seem like work. But if you hire employees, their life will not be the startup. And it will still be more "work-like" to them than it is to you. So keep them to 40 hours.
Re:Joel: Five Easy Ways to Fail (in a Software Project) by jgrahamc on Thursday October 25, 2007 @12:18PM (#72553)
My experience is that you should _plan_ as if you have 40 hours a week per developer because you are going to be wrong and end up needing more time than you expect. The work after 40 hours is just keeping you on schedule.

John.

Re:Joel: Five Easy Ways to Fail (in a Software Project) by brianr on Thursday October 25, 2007 @12:44PM (#72561)
That seems a bit counterproductive to me--if you know it's going to take more than 40 hours, then why not at least try to make an estimate? If you think that your weeks' work is going to take between 50-70 hours, then budget 70 hours and be glad (or get ahead!) if you finish early.

That said, I can't imagine any startup getting far by working 40 hours a week. 80-100 is probably a minimum for a founder... it has to be your focus, not just your 'day job'.

Re:Joel: Five Easy Ways to Fail (in a Software Project) by olavk on Thursday October 25, 2007 @03:57PM (#72637)
I wonder if anyone have actually done the experiment? When you are doing a startup, you want to work as much as possible, however it might very well be that you would be just as productive if you worked just 40 hours.
Re:Joel: Five Easy Ways to Fail (in a Software Project) by ph0rque on Thursday October 25, 2007 @04:14PM (#72644)
I'd be very interested in seeing such a study. I think the answer lies in not just how hard you work, but how smart you work; i.e. monitoring your productivity and adjusting various factors (length of time, time of day, etc.) to maximize productivity.