News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by ynniv on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @12:00AM (#7222599)
it all comes back to calories in vs calories out.

12 cans of Coke a day = healthy diet?

Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by sosborn on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @12:17AM (#7222653)
It was never argued that 12 cans of Coke a day is healthy. It was simply argued that body weight gain/loss is governed by calories in vs calories out. These are two entirely separate statements.
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by glenra on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @02:54AM (#7223115)
Body weight gain/loss is also governed by mass in versus mass out. So make an effort to inhale less than you exhale, drink less water than you expel via urination or sweat, and poop more than you eat. Any of those are guaranteed to work if you could sustain them, but you can't.

Which is nicely analogous to telling someone to focus on calories in versus calories out.

Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by carbocation on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @10:32AM (#7224797)
You lose mass by exhalation of CO2, not defecation. Since you inhale O2 and exhale CO2, you don't need to inhale more than you exhale (a mathematical impossibility anyway, of course) to lose weight.
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by tripzilch on Tuesday February 18, 2014 @07:05AM (#7257644)
Don't forget donating more organs than you receive transplants for.
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by ajcarpy2005 on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @12:34AM (#7222696)
Not all calories are absorbed. Also, I think it's safe to say that minerals and vitamins can contribute to structural/weight changes. Even water can.
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by sosborn on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @01:25AM (#7222872)
Water can certainly affect weight, but only temporarily. You will not get fat drinking water.
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by TeMPOraL on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @04:22AM (#7223335)
Calories in-calories out declare the upper bound. No matter what vitamins you take, you can't make body produce more energy that it takes in, or else something in thermodynamics is seriously broken.
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by sergiosgc on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @06:20AM (#7223721)
True, but useless. If the human body is extra efficient, it should have about 20% efficiency at converting energy. This means your upper bound rule tells you that if a male adult eats 400cal/day he'll lose weight. Duh! He'll lose weight at 1800cal/day; the 400cal mark is useless.
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by ajcarpy2005 on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @09:18AM (#7224372)
Thank you for putting into words what I was trying to think of. Different bodies operate at different metabolic/thermodynamic efficiencies depending on level and type of exercise and nutritional intake. (including non calorie nutrients like vitamins, minerals, flavanoids, etc.)
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by eclipxe on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @12:07AM (#7222624)
Hey man, calories-in, calories-out! Calorie-is-a-calorie! Sugar is fine! All in moderation! Heroin is fine, all in moderation!
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by cperciva on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @12:17AM (#7222654)
Heroin is fine, all in moderation!

In fact, numerous studies have found exactly this.

Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by jeffdavis on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @01:56AM (#7222978)
I'm sure that both sugar and heroin are fine in moderation.

The problem is that moderate consumption of either is known to cause overconsumption.

So, perhaps not so fine in an environment of abundance.

Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by leoedin on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @05:22AM (#7223522)
Most people eat sugar. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the proportion of people in the western world who have eaten sugar is close to 100%.

Not everyone is obese. Even in the US, where obesity is at its worst, it's around 35%. That suggests that 65% of people can consume sugar and then not become obese.

Certainly amongst my peer group of middle class graduates almost everyone eats sugar and almost nobody is obese. That suggests that people are perfectly capable of consuming moderate amounts of sugar without becoming rampant sugar addicts rapidly turning obese.

The physical cause of obesity may be the overconsumption of simple carbohydrates, but the socioeconomic distribution of obesity suggests that there's many factors which drive that consumption.

Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by threeseed on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @06:06AM (#7223675)
You and your peer group are at the age where your metabolism is high.

Try having the same diet when you're in your 40s and I am sure you will have a different experience.

Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by LanceH on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @09:58AM (#7224614)
I'm in my 40's and I'm fat because I sit on my ass all day and eat when I'm not hungry. There is no reason to blame a certain subset of the calories.
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by blister on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @09:35AM (#7224471)
Shit, 40s? I had to start busting my ass at 28 to not be a fat land whale.
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by jeffdavis on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @11:58AM (#7225429)
Causation does not require 100% determinism. If X causes Y, it means that inducing X will increase the likelihood of Y.

So counterexamples are not disproof. You'd have to construct a lab experiment with enough subjects and measure over a long enough time.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to construct a perfect double-blind study, because people usually know if they are eating sugar or not. Maybe if artificial sweeteners are good enough it might work, or maybe the experiment would still be convincing even if the subjects know.

I'd be interested to see the results of such a study for sugar and heroin. I probably should be able to cite one before I claim it as fact, but I didn't think it was a very controversial claim. I think it's mainly a question of degree.

Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by mullingitover on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @12:38AM (#7222710)
Not true--it causes constipation.
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by aparadja on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @12:41AM (#7222726)
Could you post links to some reputable ones?
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by glenra on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @02:48AM (#7223096)
When heroin was legal, addicts often took it in pill form which was cheap and sufficient to deter cravings. The chief negative long-term effect of being addicted to heroin is constipation...IF you can reliably keep a supply of it in pill form.

The negative effects we see in addicts today are mostly caused by two factors: (1) if you shoot up, needle - especially dirty needles - can be a vector for infection and diseases such as HIV, (2) if you can't get a reliable supply of known potency you can go through withdrawal or overdose - the wild swings are harmful. (Impurities in the drug can also be harmful depending on what it's been "cut" with.)

So if the drug were legal it'd be fine. But when it's illegal, some characteristics of an illegal market make it bad for people - those are problems related to the illegality, not really having much to do with the drug itself.

Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by sambeau on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @08:16AM (#7224043)
Which is why it is used medically with pregnant women and newborns.
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by 31reasons on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @01:00AM (#7222782)
Yes, you heard the man with bunch of citations.
Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by doktrin on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @12:33AM (#7222694)
If you consumed nothing but 12 cans of coke a day you would probably lose weight.

Healthy? Maybe not.

Re:John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar by sizzle on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @01:39AM (#7222921)
*diet coke