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Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by chasing on Saturday February 01, 2014 @01:16PM (#7162596)
> Most people won't pay full price, because most mobile games lack depth.

I think you might have this backwards: Mobile games lack depth because their developers know most people won't pay full price.

Mobile games can have great depth. Just like PC/console games can be extremely simple and trivial.

(Depth doesn't come from complex mechanics or controls, btw. In fact, those things are often used to mask how shallow a game really is.)

Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by phaus on Saturday February 01, 2014 @01:28PM (#7162670)
I agree that the ability to use complex control system isn't necessarily an indicator of depth, but it certainly opens up a lot of possibilities. There are entire genres that have always been and will always be terrible on touchscreen devices.

Perhaps you are also right that most developers won't even try to make a real game, due to the difficulty in getting customers to pay for them. Now that its more profitable to milk small amounts of money out of non-gamers, I think the rest of us are going to eventually get stuck playing the kick starter lottery in order to see real games hit the market.

Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by saraid216 on Saturday February 01, 2014 @02:12PM (#7162921)
> > Most people won't pay full price, because most mobile games lack depth.

> I think you might have this backwards: Mobile games lack depth because their developers know most people won't pay full price.

Chicken, meet egg. :(

This is why I hate the mobile space for gaming.

Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by mabhatter on Sunday February 02, 2014 @03:45AM (#7165363)
to be fair, you have to make the game for the market. If the market will only bear $2 then you need to make a simpler game... not "play the horses" that you can beat them into spending more money. That's why the App Store and Mac market in general was full of much smaller game companies for so long. People were putting "more love than money" into games. But along come the big companies that want to sink half a million dollars and then complain that they won't get it back. that's not reasonable expectations... but they're too rich to be told that.
Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by Sssnake on Saturday February 01, 2014 @02:38PM (#7163042)
Depth doesn't come from complex controls, but complex controls are almost always needed to be able to play a game with any depth.
Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by tedsanders on Saturday February 01, 2014 @03:05PM (#7163152)
It's hard for me to gauge whether this is true or not. There are some amazing deep games like chess and bridge that have extremely simple controls. Do these counterexamples disprove the rule, or are they rare outliers?
Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by phaus on Saturday February 01, 2014 @04:23PM (#7163448)
Games in general don't have to have control complexity in order to have depth, but some genres have to be significantly dumbed-down in order to work with touch controls.

The concept of an on-screen virtual analog stick is great in theory. I practice, its always going to be terrible in comparison to its physical counterpart. Games like Modern Combat 4 are pretty impressive when you first see them, but 5 minutes in you realize two things: The controls are bad, and the entire game has been dumbed-down because the developers know that the controls are bad. Its not even their fault. They did as good of a job as anyone has, but a capacitive touchscreen just isn't going to offer the user a pleasant experience in a 3d fps.

Certain genres are well-suited to touch controls. Many genres are not. Board games and card games work very well.

Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by smsm42 on Saturday February 01, 2014 @07:00PM (#7164056)
I would say any strategy game would be just fine with touch controls. Any quest or exploration game too. Many puzzle-type or construction-type games as well. So I don't think touch is a huge problem here except for some genres like hardcore "click-click-click" action or racing games.
Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by phaus on Saturday February 01, 2014 @08:06PM (#7164296)
>I would say any strategy game would be just fine with touch controls.

I'd agree that board-game style strategy/war games would work, and also quite a few turn-based strategy games.

Its also possible to make certain types of real-time strategy games. Unfortunately, complex RTS games like Starcraft probably can't be done well without extreme oversimplification.

Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by smsm42 on Sunday February 02, 2014 @02:00AM (#7165191)
What would be the problem with Starcraft? I can't think of a lot of things that you can't do using touch/twofinger touch/long touch.
Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by Tyr42 on Sunday February 02, 2014 @02:50PM (#7167240)
I think you'd need to slow down starcraft for it to be playable as the same game. People hit 60-100 actions per minute, like jumping around the map and directing units, setting build queues. Without hotkeys, you'd drop to around 20apm, and you'd be unable to do any micromanagment of units in battle. So it's not that any one action is impossible, just that lots of tactics that require many actions would be impossible.
Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by smsm42 on Monday February 03, 2014 @04:31AM (#7169662)
Maybe for hardcore sport-like starcraft players this is true. But when I played starcraft I never did nearly anything like 100 apm neither my game ever required me to. Yes, that'd probably mean I'd lose miserably if I ever play 1-on-1 against a hardcore sport players, but that's not why I would be playing it and I'd probably never play with them anyway, I'm not in the same league. So I think for a casual player it would be OK. And hardcore players would have their hardcore setups.
Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by pflanze on Saturday February 01, 2014 @05:48PM (#7163826)
There's also the accelerometers, compass, perhaps more. X-Plane is basing the primary controls on those and I find it works amazingly well (I've been playing the Android version).
Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by jamiek88 on Saturday February 01, 2014 @03:21PM (#7163222)
Mario. Sonic. Doom. Complex controls?
Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by mpyne on Saturday February 01, 2014 @04:06PM (#7163392)
The missing element for all three of those (which are action games) is latency.

With mobile touch-screen controls the game has to somehow register a button-press as soon as a button-press is made.

But it must also never (to a first approximation) register a button-press when a button-press was not requested (e.g. an accidental brush of a finger against the screen).

It's hard enough to do this anyways, but the "input device" does no favors for the game developer either. There's a reason that input devices on consoles and computers have evolved over the years into the shapes they have, they are meant to be easy to hold in a certain position (so that you always know where the buttons are) and perhaps more important, they have tactile features that allow your finger to quickly find and stay near the buttons. It's the reason that buttons and the D-pad are not fully-flush with the shell, even though that might have been more stylish.

Imagine trying to play Super Mario World with a NES-shaped rectangular controller where there are no tactile buttons. This might have worked if you only needed Left, Right, Jump, but even that game required all of the following for the best gameplay: Left/Right, Up/Down (for pipes and to literally scroll the screen up), Jump, Run/Hold/Fireball, Spin Jump, Pause, Drop Stored Item and Shoulder Left/Right (to scroll the screen). And if the input wasn't right you'd either jump into a spike you had meant to run under or accidentally run off a cliff you'd meant to jump past.

The controls on Mario seem complex only because they were so completely intuitive when you were actually playing them but I assure you they were far more difficult to implement than you think. It's not until you start playing platformer games with horrible controls that you can realize the great job done by the development teams at Sega (for Sonic) and Nintendo.

Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by orangecat on Saturday February 01, 2014 @03:54PM (#7163359)
In this context, yes. Precision jumping and strafing-while-turning-while-firing are basically impossible with touchscreen controls; at least I've yet to see them done well.
Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by ChrisClark on Saturday February 01, 2014 @03:51PM (#7163345)
On a phone, yes, they can be harder to control.
Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by krisgee on Sunday February 02, 2014 @12:51PM (#7166740)
Chess is deep but it's not complex. Starcraft is both deep and complex. Candy Crush is shallow and simple. I can't think of a game off the top of my head that's really complex and really shallow but whatever it is it's definitely not on a mobile device.
Re:How in-app purchases have destroyed the game industry by TylerE on Monday February 03, 2014 @09:44PM (#7175160)
I'm not so sure. I suspect writing a near-optimal Candy Crush AI would be quite difficult.