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Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by paul on Saturday January 25, 2014 @02:09PM (#7121882)
Awesome idea. Shame about the humorless nature of this community.

To me, a "bro" is a dumb, fratboy version of a man, which makes the name hilariously perfect. If you're feeling oppressed and excluded by a command name, your real problems lie elsewhere.

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by natch on Saturday January 25, 2014 @02:37PM (#7121988)
I'm not feeling oppressed. The problem isn't me feeling oppressed, it's other people feeling oppressed.

Poor choice of language can set up an exclusionary environment.

To you, this may be funny.

To me, your accusation of humorlessness reminds me of people who engage in sexually harassing "jokes" in the workplace, and then try to get away with it by using "humor" as an excuse.

You aren't the one who gets to decide when other people feel uncomfortable.

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by paul on Saturday January 25, 2014 @02:40PM (#7122009)
Your attitude and remarks are creating a hostile and uncomfortable environment for me. I demand that you stop immediately.
Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by mtrimpe on Saturday January 25, 2014 @02:59PM (#7122093)
From the Wikipedia link in your profile I see you invented Google's "Don't Be Evil' motto.

At least now I finally understand how they manage to still hold on to that.

As long as you redefine evil to exclude things you don't feel other people should be hurt by you're all clear!

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by paul on Saturday January 25, 2014 @04:14PM (#7122463)
Evil is teaching people to view themselves as weak victims at every available opportunity.
Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by mtrimpe on Saturday January 25, 2014 @04:26PM (#7122514)
Wait; did you just define calling out a needlessly offensive name as evil?

You do realise that would sort of be making the exact point I was trying to make, right? Or am I missing some seriously self-deprecating joke here?

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by paul on Saturday January 25, 2014 @05:49PM (#7122874)
Words are meaningless without definition.

You say that the word "bro" is needlessly offensive. Let me ask you, where is your balance point? What is the right level of offensive? The cost of censorship is real, and teaching people to be helpless victims does more harm than any word ever could.

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by KVFinn on Saturday January 25, 2014 @08:20PM (#7123367)
>The cost of censorship is real

A portion of your potential audience giving you feedback that think that they the name is bad is 'censorship'?

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by mtrimpe on Sunday January 26, 2014 @07:50AM (#7124924)
Yet even without definitions you are typing words and I am reading them and we're having a conversation here, so let's not go pretend-meta here.

The right level of offensive is the level that, given all viewpoints, does the most to benefit to society as a whole.

You're a rich straight white guy whose only discomfort over this comes down to not being able to say whatever you damn well want whenever you damn well please.

From this thread you can clearly see that there's a shit ton of people, many of whom have to re-evaluate their every word and action in our industry, for whom this triggers feelings of marginalization, ridicule and disrespect.

Insisting on maintaining your privilege over theirs and even going so far as to label their reactions as taught helplessness and defining that as evil ... well ... that pretty much sounds like the root of all evil to me.

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by jacobtracey on Sunday January 26, 2014 @09:53AM (#7125228)
> You're a rich straight white guy

Could you be any more offensive and dismissive? What difference does his cultural background have when discussing the name of a piece of software?

Oh, wait, everything right? Cisgendered, rich white men are the enemy!

If you want, think of 'bro' as a shortened version of 'brochure'. Is it less offensive to you now?

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by mtrimpe on Sunday January 26, 2014 @11:04AM (#7125503)
When somebody starts victim-shaming people it's very relevant to bring up the fact that they are in a social position where they have the least possible real-world experience with the negative side of the issues they're being dismissive about.

But yeah; the tone argument. Good to see that brought up. Going through your comment history is literally Derailment Bingo gold. I'm sure paul is happy to know that his bro's still have his back. ;)

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by jacobtracey on Sunday January 26, 2014 @11:36AM (#7125634)
"Victim shaming", "Privilege", "Tone argument", "Derailment".

Hope you're enjoying all that kool aid, bro. :)

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by KVFinn on Saturday January 25, 2014 @08:25PM (#7123376)
>Your attitude and remarks are creating a hostile and uncomfortable environment for me. I demand that you stop immediately.

I don't understand the point you are making. If your remarks were making me feel uncomfortable wouldn't you expect me to say so? Why not?

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by natch on Tuesday January 28, 2014 @12:44AM (#7135565)
Such a tone-deaf retort is typical of those who fail to see the problem. Again the issue isn't about your or my level of comfort; the issue is the environment we set up for young people considering their opportunities in life.
Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by politician on Saturday January 25, 2014 @03:05PM (#7122129)
> I'm not feeling oppressed. The problem isn't me feeling oppressed, it's other people feeling oppressed.... You aren't the one who gets to decide when other people feel uncomfortable.

But.. you.. are?

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by philwelch on Saturday January 25, 2014 @02:58PM (#7122088)
Do you realize how patronizing it is when white males get preemptively upset over something instead of letting women and minorities speak for themselves?
Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by berrypicker on Sunday January 26, 2014 @07:57AM (#7124935)
The funny thing is women and minorities are rarely offended by these sort of things but the White males of HN seem to think everyone else is a damsel in distress in dire need of their protection.
Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by chatmasta on Saturday January 25, 2014 @03:07PM (#7122152)
> You aren't the one who gets to decide when other people feel uncomfortable.

> it's other people feeling oppressed

Seems a bit hypocritical doesn't it? You are sort of correct. The only person who gets to decide if "he/she" (notice the political correctness?) is offended is "himself/herself." Just as you cannot tell someone he/she is offended, you cannot tell anyone he/she is being offensive. The only person who can label someone as offensive is the person who is offended by the words.

Stop getting offended over pointless shit. Nothing can be offensive without offensive intent. 99% of the time, the problem lies with the person getting offended, not the person doing the offending. Nobody has an obligation to feel like they are walking on glass when he/she opens his/her mouth.

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by lifeformed on Saturday January 25, 2014 @02:43PM (#7122022)
I wonder how many female programmers actually feel oppressed by this?
Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by natch on Sunday January 26, 2014 @11:10AM (#7125526)
I doubt many do. The ones who would feel oppressed probably just avoid the field. Which is not an optimal outcome, in case that wasn't obvious.
Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by railsdude on Saturday January 25, 2014 @03:00PM (#7122099)
We should compile in a Wiki (or something similar) everything that might make someone uncomfortable.

That way, we can look up and make sure this thing never happens. Then, with any luck, a strawperson (not strawman) will never feel like that for something on the internet again.

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by LinXitoW on Saturday January 25, 2014 @05:54PM (#7122895)
Why would this hypothetically offended person not by offended by "man"? They would not use it(as offended as they are), therefore they'd never learn it meant "manual", just as they wouldn't learn that "bro" is short for "brochure"....right?
Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by theorique on Saturday January 25, 2014 @05:27PM (#7122801)
You aren't the one who gets to decide when other people feel uncomfortable.

... because that's your job, I suppose?

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by godDLL on Sunday January 26, 2014 @10:38PM (#7128632)
You sure felt uncomfortable all over the comments page. Yuck bra.
Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by dreamfactory2 on Saturday January 25, 2014 @04:00PM (#7122388)
> Poor choice of language can set up an exclusionary environment.

Do you have any examples of this assertion to help understand what you are getting at and how it relates to this?

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by reinhardt on Saturday January 25, 2014 @08:24PM (#7123375)
It used to be the case that social justice warriors getting offended whenever their pet cause is looked the wrong way had an overwhelming presence in comments and impressions. With such ridiculous think-of-teh-womynz brouhahas breaking out every few weeks, it is telling (and encouraging) that more people of the generally neutral silent majority start speaking up against the silliness. Keep it up, "bro" :)
Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by donotsurveil on Saturday January 25, 2014 @03:25PM (#7122231)
You got it all wrong, the name of a command has to be practical and be related the actual use of the command.

Naming your command based on an inside joke renders it pretty useless to those outside who don't get the joke and hard to find when you don't already know the name.

Less being named from more makes sense, both are common terms and less is more. But bro as a related thing to man when it is actually something totally different is too far fetched to make any sense.

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by paul on Saturday January 25, 2014 @04:15PM (#7122465)
Perhaps you are unaware of the history of unix.
Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by edhebert on Saturday January 25, 2014 @09:06PM (#7123486)

  $ ack --thppt

  _   /|
  \'o.O'
  =(___)=
     U    ack --thppt!
Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by KVFinn on Saturday January 25, 2014 @03:23PM (#7122214)
>If you're feeling oppressed and excluded by a command name, your real problems lie elsewhere.

Similarly, why are you so offended by people thinking something is a bad name and expressing those sentiments?

Re:Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only by sethammons on Saturday January 25, 2014 @11:42PM (#7123922)
While I cannot speak for the parent, and while I am not offended by people thinking something is a bad name, I find it to be perhaps the right sentiment directed in the wrong direction. Yes, we want to encourage more woman -- heck, more people -- into our industry. I think this is done through different means. I think it starts off when people are young and they get exposed to programming. If I knew someone left our industry because they were offended by the naming of command line tools, I would be baffled.