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Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by slewis on Friday January 24, 2014 @04:54PM (#7118371)
It's not on the author to say something. There were a handful of other people there who could have spoken up.

Please, everyone, if you witness this type of rude behavior, speak up. We are all, male, female, undecided, both etc. responsible for improving treatment of non-males in tech. Take an active role.

Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by UnoriginalGuy on Friday January 24, 2014 @05:57PM (#7118783)
> Please, everyone, if you witness this type of rude behavior, speak up. We are all, male, female, undecided, both etc. responsible for improving treatment of non-males in tech. Take an active role.

How are we meant to know this is "rude behaviour?" unless we are privy to allot of information about their personal lives they could have a previous relationship, could be married, or be hooking up.

If I see a guy put his hand around a women I am not going to try to intervene because I don't know the background there. It is just unrealistic to suggest people should do otherwise.

Now if she had previously mentioned this behaviour or the individual in a negative way I might say something, but based on the situation (and most situations) that wasn't the case.

Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by wonderzombie on Friday January 24, 2014 @07:11PM (#7119129)
How about you ask? Start by being polite.

"Oh, I haven't been introduced. So how are you two connected?"

You'll to have to step out of your comfort zone for this even if it is immediately obvious. And if it's normal, you've lost nothing.

Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by Crito on Friday January 24, 2014 @07:35PM (#7119233)
Yeah, I do not feel comfortable doing anything even approaching policing other people's relationships. The most I would feel okay with doing is asking "Is everything okay here?", but even that is quite an ask and I would not consider it unless I noticed that one of the people was visibly upset.

Yeah, before you say it, "me feeling uncomfortable" is a pretty selfish excuse for not helping somebody that is feeling a hell of a lot more uncomfortable than I. I'm not going to make excuses for that. I'm just not going to start interrogating people in public about the nature of their relationships.

Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by DorintheFlora on Friday January 24, 2014 @07:39PM (#7119254)
If you care: Sometimes, just looking may help. Just don't turn a blind eye to it, which is what most men do in such situations.

If the woman feels she has a sympathetic supporter, it is easier to defend herself and if the jerk thinks there is an eyewitness to his assholish behavior, he may tone it down without you needing to say something. I think saying something may be counterproductive (because when accused people are quick to justify, and that makes them LESS likely to back off, not more) but just being aware can sometimes help.

Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by Crito on Friday January 24, 2014 @07:44PM (#7119276)
Sure, that's fine.

If I see something that seems off, I might try to enter the conversation. If I see something that really seems off, I might ask if both of them are okay. If it is more extreme than that, I am open to taking more extreme action.

What I'm not going to do is orbit the room interrogating people about their relationships without seeing any warning signals.

Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by wonderzombie on Friday January 24, 2014 @07:42PM (#7119265)
Nobody ought to ask you to do something you're uncomfortable with, and nobody ought to expect you to be the social enforcer or whatever. I empathize 100%.

But if a woman's body language seems particularly bad, or you know your friend/acquaintance only just met this person? That seems like a good opportunity to speak up without "interrogating" people, as you put it.

Truth be told, it's more about friends who enable their friends' asshole behavior by looking the other way. Assholes cannot be 100% friendless, nor only friends with other assholes.

Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by dragonwriter on Friday January 24, 2014 @07:53PM (#7119305)
But people can (and many do) engage in socially unacceptable behavior more, or exclusively, in contexts in which their friends (or people that know them more generally) aren't around to recognize them and observe it.
Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by wonderzombie on Sunday January 26, 2014 @02:33PM (#7126469)
Who's suggesting you need to police everybody? Think of it like being an ally or a spotter, not an enforcer or inquisitor.
Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by Crito on Friday January 24, 2014 @07:49PM (#7119290)
> But if a woman's body language seems particularly bad, or you know your friend/acquaintance only just met this person? That seems like a good opportunity to speak up without "interrogating" people, as you put it.

That seems reasonable to me. You make a good point about friends enabling assholes too.

Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by patrickmay on Friday January 24, 2014 @05:11PM (#7118486)
Exactly right. I may have a T-shirt made for the next technical meet up I attend:

"I have daughters. I lift weights. I'm watching how you treat women."

Okay, so it could use some wordsmithing, but if a few of us were to make it clear that this is an issue and we are willing to do something about it, the gropers might think twice.

Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by danellis on Sunday January 26, 2014 @01:28AM (#7124130)
How would they see it under your armor?
Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by vellum on Friday January 24, 2014 @05:18PM (#7118539)
There were a handful of other people there who could have spoken up.

If you don't know who any of these people are, or how they know each other, it's hard to tell what's going on. Having said that, I'm all for banning gropers from meetups.

Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by king_jester on Friday January 24, 2014 @05:33PM (#7118632)
> If you don't know who any of these people are, or how they know each other, it's hard to tell what's going on.

By default, a meetup group of strangers is an environment that should be free of harassment, it is better to speak up and be told that contact is OK than to say nothing and let someone fend for themselves.

Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by sliverstorm on Friday January 24, 2014 @05:42PM (#7118691)
So you're going to go butt in on every couple there?
Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by UnoriginalGuy on Friday January 24, 2014 @05:59PM (#7118795)
I'm confused too! Are they suggesting that if a husband/wife couple come together and the dude hugs her I should run up, push them apart, and then threaten him for being gropey?

Do people on here even leave the house? They've really out of touch with reality.

Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by wonderzombie on Friday January 24, 2014 @07:15PM (#7119147)
No, you will ask politely. It's 100% socially acceptable to ask about how people are connected or know each other.

If people get weird about it, apologize. "Sorry, I was just worried for a second that you were, like, groping her!" Laugh it off. Women are likely to respect you for the fact that you're even aware that this is a problem.

Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by sliverstorm on Friday January 24, 2014 @05:22PM (#7118571)
This one raises a good point, especially if the girl is halfheartedly trying not to make a big deal of it, as this one described. It might be tough to spot for a crowd of people practically defined by their inability to detect nonverbal social cues.
Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by sp332 on Friday January 24, 2014 @05:33PM (#7118634)
I'm not saying the author had a responsibility to fight back, but I'm having a hard time justifying her "right" to not say anything. If she doesn't say that she doesn't like it, the guy has no reason to back off, at all. Not justifying what he did at first, but it would justify everything he did after that.
Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by 4bpp on Friday January 24, 2014 @05:29PM (#7118617)
Spoken up, or, much more easily and effectively, given the perpetrator nasty looks, not have invited him around the next time, gossipped about him behind his back or whatever else is part of the usual creep treatment. For all the reluctance tech people might have to consciously engage in this sort of herd animal behaviour, it's a component of social interaction that isn't going anywhere anytime soon; if they refuse to deliberately use it in situations to an end they can agree to be good, it will just wind up being used to random ends in ways the people doing it are not even aware of. In addition, this way, the pressure of having to "start a fuss" by lifting something unspoken into the realm of explicit discourse if they don't want a situation that is unpleasant to themselves to continue will be on the people who were at fault to begin with.
Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by meritt on Friday January 24, 2014 @04:58PM (#7118399)
I doubt the others noticed the groping but you're absolutely right. People need to stop inappropriate behavior when and where it occurs.
Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by ameister14 on Friday January 24, 2014 @05:19PM (#7118549)
I get where you're coming from, but it's been my experience that unless the behavior crosses a significant line, it's best not to intervene without more information.
Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by throwawaycoder on Friday January 24, 2014 @05:05PM (#7118444)
It's not always easy to know what kind of relationship people are in. That's probably a reason why people tend to wait until it escalates beyond a certain point.

If people would interfere too soon, feminists wouldn't be happy either. Because that kind of behavior would imply that women are weak and unable to take care of themselves.

Re:This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup by patrickmay on Friday January 24, 2014 @05:17PM (#7118527)
The average man is five to six inches taller and forty or more pounds heavier than the average woman. Men are also physically stronger pound for pound.

I'd rather take a tongue lashing for being an interfering white knight wannabe than not say something and find out that the woman was too uncomfortable, for all the reasons being discussed in this thread, to extricate herself from the person bothering her.