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Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by shmerl on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @12:53AM (#7055603)
Steam can't be considered DRM free in many cases, for example because they don't let you backing up installers / packages, so if the service closes down you lose your collection. The only completely DRM-free gaming distributor is GOG. Humble Bundle and Desura are mixed.

You are right in general though. Going DRM free not only won't hurt any publisher, it will only gain respect from customers and will improve the quality of their products in a sense of improved usability, because any DRM means a crippled product (i.e. limited platforms availability, inability to make backups and etc. and etc.).

The problem is, that most legacy publishers are rarely customer focused and think that DRM helps their profits. And unprincipled distributors like Netflix are ready to oblige. But the irony is, those publishers only hurt themselves by continuing using DRM. It's mostly innovative publishers, or self published studios (and crowdfunded projects) that have common sense and avoid using DRM. Luckily some distributors are also principled enough to reject DRMed products from publishers. But such are a minority still.

Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by Semaphor on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @08:56AM (#7057016)
Steam is a distributor. If a certain games has the Steam DRM included or not is (though sadly not mentioned on the product page) up to the publisher/developer. On the GOG forum there is a (probably outdated) list [1] of those games.

[1] http://www.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_st...

Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by shmerl on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @11:30AM (#7057886)
DRM proliferation is conducted in three steps:

1. Publishers decide to treat all potential users as criminals, and insist on using DRM in their products.

2. Distributors accept that, and help these unethical publishers to sell those products.

3. Users accept being treated as criminals, and buy these products from distributors.

It starts from the publisher of course, but anywhere down the line, one can refuse to accept this. Distributor can refuse dealing with DRMed products from publishers. Users can refuse buying DRMed products from distributors. Any participation in that chain proliferates DRM, and one can't excuse this participation with the fact that it was initiated by the publisher.

Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by warfangle on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @02:11PM (#7059028)
2a. Distributors that don't accept that go out of business, because none of the publishers from 1. want anything to do with them.
Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by shmerl on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @02:58PM (#7059292)
For example GOG is a successful DRM free distributor - they only accept DRM free games from various publishers. There are others as well (for music, e-books and etc.). It's mostly video industry which lacks DRM-free distribution options (services like this are virtually non existent worldwide: https://www.headweb.com/en/ See their DRM-free terms of purchase: https://www.headweb.com/en/100237/purchase-terms).

Supporting unethical practice can't be excused with fear of going out of business by the way. Also, publishers need distributors and users not any less than distributors and users need publishers, if not even more. Therefore voting with your wallet (on either distributor or user level) is not senseless. Except that distributors have more leverage on publishers, because of their scale, in comparison with an individual who buys only DRM-free products. Therefore distributors can be blamed more for DRM proliferation.

Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by jonhendry on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @11:05PM (#7061606)
Unless I'm mistaken (I may be) GOG is primarily in the business of selling old games, which is why the publishers are willing to forgo DRM on the titles.

Publishers of new games (especially expensively developed new games) are more likely to fear a loss of revenue, especially in the crucial early period after release, without DRM.

Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by shmerl on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @11:43PM (#7061712)
GOG sells new games from those who have common sense. As I said elsewhere in this thread, it's mostly innovative, forward thinking self published studios or crowdfunded projects. GOG isn't focused on old games exclusively anymore. They are focused on DRM free games though.

I'm not really sure why bigger size of the budget should reduce the common sense of the publisher. Legacy publishers are obsessed with DRM, but DRM has nothing to do with revenue whatsoever. It doesn't reduce any piracy, and only cripples the experience for legitimate users. It's stupid from common sense business perspective, and there is an increasing amount of big budget games which come out DRM free. I view it as simply mentality issue. Legacy publishers can't understand that they should start being customer focused. New ones have no issues understanding it, therefore they don't use any DRM.

Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by Semaphor on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @11:39AM (#7057966)
I wasn't making a statement regarding DRM, I was just refuting that all steam games have DRM ;)
Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by shmerl on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @11:45AM (#7058016)
> I was just refuting that all steam games have DRM

Practically all do, I already explained above. Being unable to back up the installer is already DRM, and it's coming from Valve themselves, not from the publishers.

Always on-line DRM and such is another level of nastiness, but the above is DRM too.

Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by Semaphor on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @11:49AM (#7058042)
You can still backup the game files after installation.
Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by shmerl on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @11:52AM (#7058052)
That may or may not work for reinstalling the game another time. And Steam doesn't help to make it easier, and doesn't let you find out these details before buying the game. therefore I don't consider it to be really DRM-free. The proper DRM free game is distributed as installer / archive package. Steam doesn't offer such option.
Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by luckyno13 on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @08:11AM (#7056775)
I purchase whatever I like on Steam and still hate DRM. They make it worth while with the sales and convenience.

My theory is that if Steam goes belly up, I can do a backup of my games, and use the same avenues pirates use to circumvent Steam. Hopefully they would release control of their games though if they went belly up.

As far as poor customer service, I suppose I have been lucky so far.

Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by fafner on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @12:53PM (#7058499)
And GOG refuses to add GNU/Linux support. Considering that many GOG games run in DOSEmu anyway and some come with native Linux support this is not really understandable.
Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by shmerl on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @01:49PM (#7058882)
> And GOG refuses to add GNU/Linux support.

Yes, that's one of their downsides. Even their reasoning is becoming less and less sensible. They claimed they still can't figure out how to offer long term support on Linux. May be Docker can help them.

Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by teacup50 on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @07:28PM (#7060829)
Shipping binary software for Linux is like playing a never-ending game of Space Invaders.

GOG's position is totally understandable.

Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by shmerl on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @07:49PM (#7060923)
No, it's not. Their position is (at least from their last status update): "we are trying to come up with a long term support methodology, and didn't find one yet". It takes them more than a year to design it. It doesn't sound reasonable to me.
Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by pquerna on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @02:13AM (#7062068)
Shipping binaries on Linux is nearly impossible on a long term support basis.

FatELF would of addressed at least some of these problems, but was largely rejected by the larger community of people not shipping proprietary products on Linux: https://icculus.org/fatelf/

Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by derefr on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @05:46AM (#7062642)
Might Docker containers be a valid solution to this? Shipping old games is a sorta-kinda-similar problem to shipping frozen versions of web-apps.
Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by shmerl on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @02:12PM (#7065426)
That can work probably, since Docker claims that it doesn't impose big overhead, so it can be suitable for gaming.
Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by techdragon on Sunday January 19, 2014 @08:15PM (#7086962)
You would probably find there are performance penalties in areas Docker don't really bother benchmarking or even talking about since they don't align to the design goals. I've only seen some fairly rudimentary demonstrations of VNC and X over the Network for isolating GUI apps in Docker.
Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by shykes on Sunday January 19, 2014 @10:33PM (#7087379)
Docker author here. I really doubt performance would be a problem. Namespaced linux processes access devices the same way every other process does: by getting a file descriptor to it and making syscalls against that. What we need to figure out is a portable way for a docker container to declare "I need access to the following devices". I would love to work with anyone interested to add that to the docker APIs for 1.0. I think long-term stable binary delivery is an important thing to do and I would like to help.

Ping me at [email protected] about this anytime.

Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by darklajid on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @02:55AM (#7055927)
Can you explain the "no backups" part? I'm sure you know about the backups you can create in Steam itself, bundling the application. What is the missing detail? Being unable to extract the data again, without Steam? Is Steam unable to restore these bundles in offline mode?
Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by ekianjo on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @03:17AM (#7055974)
Steam will require you to be connected to their servers once in a while at least. There's no pure offline mode.
Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by gcb0 on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @03:31AM (#7055999)
steam is just like any other drm system for your games. it phone home and prevents you from playing without a connection to the mothership.

they just have saner fallback times than other ill talked solutions from EA. but besides its pretty eyes, its the same virus.

good luck running online games as root.

Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by jeena on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @05:31AM (#7056300)
I once bought and downloaded SuperHexagon on Steam but didn't have the time to test it at home. Later on the train (I'm commuting for two hours a day) I wanted to test it. Sadly I wasn't allowed without a internet connection which was really annoying.
Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by jamesgeck0 on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @05:44PM (#7060333)
Sometimes the game executable doesn't actually require you to be online the first time you launch it, even though Steam does. If you launch the binary from Windows explorer, there's a chance it'll work.
Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by Svip on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @08:11AM (#7056774)
Only for games that require Steam. A game bought through Steam does not necessarily require Steam. Europa Universalis III can be run without Steam running. Europa Universalis IV only requires Steam to be run once (and once for every DLC you buy, in order to activate it).

These settings are up to the game developer themselves. You are right about the offline mode, but it does not apply to all games.

Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by shmerl on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @11:33AM (#7057915)
Running the game and installing it aren't the same thing. Some Steam can can be probably trivially copied (the game directory), and are backup-able that way, but you never know which ones, and which require more steps for installation. Steam also doesn't mark any such details on the games before you buy them.
Re:Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential by crowleysimon on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @03:01AM (#7055942)
Correct. You can backup a game when offline, but steam wont allow you to restore one without being logged in.