News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by praxulus on Friday December 27, 2013 @05:09PM (#6972842)
Is there a sensible way to extend copyright on "active" IP that is still being used in new content, while allowing copyright to expire on "dormant" IP that has been left untouched for years?

I don't think it's unreasonable for Disney to still hold copyright on Mickey Mouse (that might be the nostalgia talking), but there are plenty of creations from much more recent times that have long overstayed their welcome in the copyright protected realm.

Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by mullingitover on Friday December 27, 2013 @05:41PM (#6972944)
Disney holds a trademark on Mickey Mouse in perpetuity, so your nostalgia is covered.

I'd be happy with a copyright system where the fee is $5 for the first year of government-protected monopoly, $10, for the second, $20 for the third, and on and on at the rate of $5*2^n for as long as they like. Note that at the fifteen-year mark, the renewal fee for another year of copyright enforcement would be over $30 million, which seems appropriate.

edit: math

Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by officemonkey on Friday December 27, 2013 @06:23PM (#6973094)
This. Whenever people talk about Mickey Mouse entering the public domain like it's the end of the world, I point to the Fleischer Studio Superman Cartoons that were made in the 1940s. Those cartoons are in the public domain and people may copy or sell them as much as they want.

However, since DC Comics still holds a trademark on Superman, you can't use Superman for anything else. In fact, when I bought a VHS tape of the Superman cartoons back in the 90s, the manufacturer was careful to use an actual Public Domain image of Superman on the box. If they created a new image, the Superman trademark would have applied.

Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by pbhjpbhj on Friday December 27, 2013 @08:03PM (#6973405)
>If they created a new image, the Superman trademark would have applied. //

Trademarks indicate origins of goods/services. Unless they used the trademark in a way as to convince people that the video originated with DC Comics then they're supposedly fine.

It's a notional consideration but after the lapse of a copyright the "man in the street" should be expected to be aware that the copyright has lapsed and so to be able to buy previously restricted works from any company. Images adapted from a PD work then should be allowed, provided there is no effort made to use that image in an otherwise infringing way.

Of course you can be sued for anything and DC Comics would most likely enact a very expensive lawsuit - in a sane legal system however they should probably lose, especially if they were attempting to use their trademark to prevent the release of material which would have been copyright infringing before the lapse of the copyright term.

If the estate of a creator of a work can use TM law to prevent PD works from being adapated and used then that cancels the deal made in copyright between the state and the creator whereby the works have a presumption of fully entering the public domain.

[Does anyone know of any caselaw covering situations where a major element of once copyrighted - but now PD - works is also a valid trademark?]

Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by njharman on Saturday December 28, 2013 @03:09PM (#6976245)
Because it's not about Mickey.

It's about suppressing the ideas that copyright is a granted right, a temporary right, that everything starts out free (as in freedom) and is only temporarily monopolized for the betterment of society, that the public domain exists.

And to reinforce that idea that culture, art, entertainment are products owned by corporations which must be paid for.

Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by derleth on Saturday December 28, 2013 @06:42PM (#6977188)
> the ideas that copyright is a granted right

So is ownership of land, when you come down to it. We like to pretend, in most countries, that land tenure is absolute and that it's the foundation of society, but it isn't. Only a sovereign has absolute land tenure, and the only sovereigns in the modern Western world are corporate entities called governments. (A constitutional monarchy is pleased to pretend that certain individuals are sovereign, but in point of practical fact a crowned head can be deposed by a functional constitutional government.) Everyone else holds tenure contingent on their sovereign not exercising eminent domain to take the land from them and use it to its own ends. Sure, you'll likely get paid, but you don't have the option of turning down the offer and keeping the land.

"Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society." -- Thomas Jefferson

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_8s12....

Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by chaz on Friday December 27, 2013 @08:39PM (#6973484)
> over $30 million, which seems appropriate.

Appropriate to who? Maybe Disney, but not for the vast majority of people who are creating works every day. Just yesterday, we had a guy doing a Song a Day make the front page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6966581. He started it in 2009. Doing very rough math, that puts his burden as:

  2009: 365 x $5 * 2^5 = $58,400
  2010: 365 x $5 * 2^4 = $29,200
  2011: 365 x $5 * 2^3 = $14,600
  2012: 365 x $5 * 2^2 = $7,300
  2013: 365 x $5 * 2^1 = $3,650
  TOTAL: $113,150
Even if you adjust the scheme and make the first 10 years free or change the exponent/constant, it still puts the burden on the creator. Automatic, unregistered copyrights were deliberately designed to take the friction out of creating, and I fear this would add friction instead.
Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by notimetorelax on Friday December 27, 2013 @06:00PM (#6973018)
Did you mean 5$, 25$, 125$,... ?
Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by maemilius on Friday December 27, 2013 @06:15PM (#6973065)
I think he meant $5 * 2^n
Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by mullingitover on Friday December 27, 2013 @07:35PM (#6973329)
Fixed. Math is hard :P
Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by greglindahl on Friday December 27, 2013 @05:23PM (#6972874)
One way is to go back to the old US system, whereby you had to actively renew copyrights, and it costs enough that only active authors or publishers will do so. In reality, it was pretty messy, and there's a lot of arguing about whether a magazine copyright that wasn't renewed causes a story published in multiple places to have a lapsed copyright, etc etc.

It was also extremely painful to search for renewals until all of the renewal records were digitized by the Project Gutenberg Distributed Proofreaders. Now it's just moderately painful, because you have to be alert for variations in titles and author names.

Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by dragonwriter on Friday December 27, 2013 @05:33PM (#6972910)
> Is there a sensible way to extend copyright on "active" IP that is still being used in new content, while allowing copyright to expire on "dormant" IP that has been left untouched for years?

Periodic -- say, every 7 years -- renewals with exponentially increasing costs to renew.

Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by AmirS2 on Friday December 27, 2013 @05:56PM (#6972998)
Why bother with exponentially increasing costs? Even a token fee would ensure that copyright expires on abandoned/orphaned works.
Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by dragonwriter on Friday December 27, 2013 @06:09PM (#6973046)
> Why bother with exponentially increasing costs? Even a token fee would ensure that copyright expires on abandoned/orphaned works.

A token fee would do that for abandoned works, but it wouldn't do it for works which weren't being actively used but which the owner also didn't want others to use -- an escalating fee would be better than a token fee to discourage such buried works.

Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by rmc on Friday December 27, 2013 @06:05PM (#6973029)
You need increasing fees to prevent big business from automatically renewing all the time. Make them think if they want to renew it all. Otherwise they'll decide the just renew it all.
Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by danielweber on Saturday December 28, 2013 @10:09AM (#6975131)
The problem is deciding what unit to which you need to apply the renewal costs. A photographer may make hundreds of very creative works a year, while an author may make only one.
Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by gabemart on Saturday December 28, 2013 @06:45AM (#6974777)
I've done quite a bit of work with public domain text. While more flexible copyright terms do have some advantages, it becomes a nightmare to work out whether or not a given text is still in copyright, especially for the large majority of work that falls into obscurity.

Copyright covers an enormous range of output. Keeping a central ledger that tracked the copyright status of hundreds of millions of items would be a massive undertaking.

Re:Sherlock Holmes Is in the Public Domain, American Judge R... by rmc on Friday December 27, 2013 @06:06PM (#6973033)
I think all copyright is treated legally the same, regardless of how much it's used now. That's one of my big problems with current copyright systems.