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Re:I wrote the Anarchist Cookbook in 1969. Now I see its pre... by Crito on Thursday December 19, 2013 @09:07PM (#6939463)
Adding to your point, here is another example: Would you assert that the people on United Airlines Flight 93 should have practiced non-violent resistance when the intent of their hijackers became clear?

Their use of violence against the hijackers was not pacifist, and because they were not pacifists many lives, arguably countless lives, were spared.

Re:I wrote the Anarchist Cookbook in 1969. Now I see its pre... by meowface on Thursday December 19, 2013 @10:29PM (#6939755)
They did it out of self-defense (and also general defense). Violence from self-defense is completely different from retaliatory and/or "message-sending" violence.
Re:I wrote the Anarchist Cookbook in 1969. Now I see its pre... by Crito on Thursday December 19, 2013 @10:51PM (#6939828)
Sure. I agree.

Violence for self-defense isn't pacifism though. Pacifism is not "only use violence when it is justified".

That you recognize that violence can be justified (for instance, in self-defense) means that you're not a pacifist. That is okay, most people are not.

The author asserts that violence used to prevent additional violence is illogical. You and I both recognize that as false, as both you and I recognize the value that violence can have when it is used for self-defense.

Re:I wrote the Anarchist Cookbook in 1969. Now I see its pre... by IgorPartola on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:11AM (#6940042)
Both you and your parent comment are incorrect. Self-defense vs first strike becomes a gradient very quickly. And the biggest issue is that the person interpreting what happened is usually the one that used the violence.

But back to the main point, there is a world of difference between "self-defense" and "violence used to prevent additional violence". Self-defense is immediate: someone is punching you, so you punch back. The other thing... it doesn't have to be. In my mind, self-defense is justified. But self-defense is defined as "have no other reasonable option", and thus is fairly narrow. If you can negotiate, if you can protect your interests by deterring the enemy, if you can eliminate the enemy without violence, by say sanctions, etc. then you have options and it's not self-defense. Also, self-defense is not the condition where violence is the best option. It's only self-defense when violence is the only option.

Perhaps violence is justified when it's not self-defense, but I don't think you can call any first-strike "self-defense" in order to gain the high moral ground.

Re:I wrote the Anarchist Cookbook in 1969. Now I see its pre... by Crito on Friday December 20, 2013 @02:10AM (#6940339)
Gandhi implored the british to not defend their country, their homes, their families, or themselves. It's a stance against self-defense, something that is almost universally considered an acceptable time for violence.
Re:I wrote the Anarchist Cookbook in 1969. Now I see its pre... by precisioncoder on Friday December 20, 2013 @07:06AM (#6941012)
Tibetan monks have attempted the same and due to differing circumstances they have lost. It's interesting how similar techniques offer varying success rates based on all the other factors at play.
Re:I wrote the Anarchist Cookbook in 1969. Now I see its pre... by maaku on Friday December 20, 2013 @05:48AM (#6940826)
To pick a nit, that is a strange meaning of the word "universal".