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Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by tptacek on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @04:28PM (#6924096)
I agree with what you have to say about the police. Not only that, but people forget that most of the people police come into professional contact with are, in fact, criminals. Quite a lot of informal but institutionalized racism results from taking people out of middle class neighborhoods and plunking them into the middle of very poor, broken, homogeneously black or hispanic neighborhoods, and then making them a magnet for every bad thing that happens in those neighborhoods. It should surprise nobody that people placed in that situation act the way they do.

To me, that suggests that we need sweeping and creative reforms not merely to make the police more effective or impartial, but to actively combat the psychological effect that policing has on veteran officers. Instead, we seem to be pulling them off foot patrols and sticking them into cars to create rapid response forces. That may work as an emergency triage against violent crime outbreaks, but it exacerbates the damage the job does to the professionals who have to do it.

On the other hand: 90% of what was upsetting about this article was the result of judges and the probation system. I have much less sympathy for a judge than I do for a police.

Urban criminal judges are almost completely unaccountable. Chicago judges are elected, and each election cycle, papers and blogs run horror stories about incompetent judges who no rational elector could vote for. And every election cycle, the exact same slate of horrible judges gets reelected. A civic-minded hacker that wanted to improve the criminal justice process in the US could make a large dent in the problem by coming up with something that would help the electorate handle judicial elections. For virtually everyone living in a big city, judicial elections are entirely opaque; city papers don't even cover them.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by DanBC on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @05:50PM (#6924549)
> Not only that, but people forget that most of the people police come into professional contact with are, in fact, criminals.

The UK sometimes has anti drink-driving campaigns. Police forces increase the number of breathalyser tests. They're only allowed to use a breathalyser if they have reason to suspect someone is drunk - they saw them leaving a pub or driving erratically.

(https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm...) Page 77

> • During 2009, there were 813,288 screening breath tests carried out. This is a 14 per cent increase from 711,658 in 2008. This increase coincides with the introduction of new digital recording equipment, which may have streamlined breath test procedures for many forces.

> • The number of positive or refused tests in 2009 increased by three per cent from 91,666 in 2008 to 93,973 in 2009 after a three year decline.

> • The proportion of tests that were positive or refused in 2009 was 12 per cent, one percentage point lower than in 2008.

It seems that traffic officers come into contact with very many people who they think are criminals but who are not criminals.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by edias on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @06:16PM (#6924674)
I think it's entirely dependent on the area, and using breathalyzer tests in one city as a proxy isn't very convincing. I grew up in a mostly white, upper middle class, Boston suburb with next to no violent crime. All I've ever seen the police do is harass teenagers, such as myself for J walking many years ago, or breaking up house parties.

I spent freshman year of university in The Bronx, an borough in NYC which has highest poverty rate of any urban area in the States and by far the most dangerous of the NYC boroughs. I remember early on being afraid of seeing cops outside the bar we all wen't to that openly served minors, but they had more important things to do, such as protecting us on the walk back to campus. J walking is almost encouraged just so you keep you moving. The people police have to deal with are some of the scariest I've ever seen.

Further, every couple days we get an email about students getting mugged or worse, and every time the assailant is black or Hispanic. Without fail, despite 50+ notices at this point. Please, tell me how a cop can put away racial prejudices with statistics like that? Should they? Of course, but it's not that simple.

Ultimately I think the largest problem is the militarization of the police force. An army is supposed to fight an enemy, the police are supposed to protect citizens and mixing up the two becomes very dangerous very quickly.`

*Edit Typos and clarity

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by infectoid on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @11:33PM (#6925921)
> Ultimately I think the largest problem is the militarization of the police force. An army is supposed to fight an enemy, the police are supposed to protect citizens and mixing up the two becomes very dangerous very quickly

Completely agree with this.

Over the past few years I have noticed this militaristic attitude creep into the Australian police force (and private security businesses, as they always copy what the police do). It is as though they are all just waiting for some massive global uprising that's never going to happen.

What bothers me is the attitude that comes with this new uniform tends to provoke responses from drunk idiots that are inline with these unspoken fears.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by blueblob on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @08:53AM (#6927453)
> Over the past few years I have noticed this militaristic attitude creep into the Australian police force

Then you will not be surprised to know that this is happening in the US too. Apparently the police in South Carolina need a "mine-resistant ambush protected vehicle"[1]

[1] http://benswann.com/sc-police-department-gets-u-n-blue-tank-...

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by commandar on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @12:02PM (#6928723)
That's all over the US right now. With Iraq and Afghanistan winding down, the Army has a bunch of unneeded MRAPs sitting around and they've been giving them away to LEOs.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by sliverstorm on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @06:04PM (#6924622)
It's gonna depend on location. Cop in the rich white suburbs might spend all day writing traffic tickets (civil), cop in the urban ghetto might spend all day investigating armed robbery (criminal).
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by jcalvinowens on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @07:39PM (#6932108)
A traffic ticket is not a civil offense. At least in Texas, it's a Class C Misdemeanor in the penal code.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by estel on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @09:50PM (#6925599)
Are you sure that that's the only circumstance in which an officer may breathalyse? From my memory of Traffic Cops, they routinely breath test anyone stopped for most other reasons to determine if it's a contributing factor.

Without another incident, they'd require a suspicion of erratic driving before arbitrarily stopping someone for drink driving.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by DanBC on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @07:48AM (#6927222)
Well, the link I supplied quotes the law.

> Under the Road Traffic Act 1988, the police can require a person to take a screening breath test if they have a reasonable cause to suspect that:

> ● the person is or has been driving or attempting to drive or is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place with alcohol in their body (section 6(2) and 6(3));

> ● has committed a moving traffic offence (section 6(4)); or

> ● has been involved in an accident (section 6(5)).

> The subsequent evidential test carried out at the police station can be submitted as evidence in court.

> The prescribed alcohol limit is 35 micrograms of alcohol per 100ml of breath, which equates with 80 milligrams of alcohol in 100ml of blood.

> It is an offence to refuse to take a breath test when required to do so by a police officer unless there is a reasonable excuse. Court penalties for refusing an evidential test are the same as being above the prescribed limit.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by estel on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @07:35PM (#6932092)
Sure, my point was just that a low proportion of failed/refused tests doesn't necessarily imply that the officer originally believed the person to be intoxicated, and wrongly suspect them of criminality.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by pjc50 on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @05:02AM (#6926752)
Yeah, I got knocked off my bike by a car and mildly concussed; the addending police breathalysed both me and the driver. I suspect this happens routinely at minor accidents. I guess they're using "there was an accident" as evidence that there may have been erratic driving.

(in the UK)

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by fophillips on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @07:55AM (#6927241)
I imagine that knocking someone off their bike counts as "erratic driving".
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by collyw on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @03:42PM (#6930553)
As a cyclist (and driver), it is as likely to be the cyclists fault.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by inopinatus on Thursday December 19, 2013 @03:25AM (#6933498)
Not so. A study by Westminster Council found fault with the cyclist in only 20% of collisions between bicycles and motor vehicles.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3758...

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by nitrogen on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @07:44PM (#6925058)
> • The number of positive or refused tests in 2009 increased by three per cent from 91,666 in 2008 to 93,973 in 2009 after a three year decline.

Why are refused tests counted with positive tests?

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by mscarborough on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @08:01PM (#6925142)
I can't speak to the exact legal background, but this article explains the process well: http://dui.drivinglaws.org/resources/dui-refusal-blood-breat...

From what I've heard in any other state I've lived in (US), it is the same or similar there.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by nitrogen on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @11:50PM (#6925969)
Wow, that's a lot harsher than I was expecting. Suspending someone's license for a year, even if they don't drink, because they refuse a breathalyser? It seems kind of like a 5th and 6th amendment violation.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by beedogs on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @12:37AM (#6926092)
Judges and juries and awful politicians have been carving out little chunks of those amendments for the past 200 years. There's very little left to chip away.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by htns on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @06:42PM (#6924812)
>They're only allowed to use a breathalyser if they have reason to suspect someone is drunk

That is a weird rule.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by tptacek on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @06:44PM (#6924824)
It sure doesn't seem weird to me. Breathalyzers are invasive.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by ama729 on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @07:08PM (#6924921)
Different perspective I think.

Here (I live in Europe) they make routine breath tests during the holidays and week end for every car in X place (not surprisingly close to bars and clubs, but not always).

As a driver, I'm glad they try to reduce drunk driving, and I don't see how they could do it without regular tests (which are less invasive, than say, car that don't turn on if you fail the breath test inside the car. Yes, that was proposed at some point)

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by jmccree on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @07:59PM (#6925133)
The US supreme court ruled that DUI checkpoints, where drivers may be stopped for a brief (~30 second) questioning to see if they appear drunk, but no answers are legally required, are legal here. This was a controversial decision and several states either passed laws or their existing state constitution prevent dui checkpoints.

The idea of a forced breath test without any evidence of intoxication is simply mind boggling to me.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by DrStalker on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @09:16PM (#6925479)
Different perspective: I see it it as a requirement of holding a license and operating a motor vehicle that I have agreed to demonstrate I'm in a state capable of doing so safely when asked to do so in a manner that causes only minor inconvenience.

I'm in Australia, random breath tests have been around for many years and they have helped a lot with a culture of getting drunk and driving home.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by darkarmani on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @03:51PM (#6930625)
> Different perspective: I see it it as a requirement of holding a license and operating a motor vehicle that I have agreed to demonstrate I'm in a state capable of doing so safely when asked to do so in a manner that causes only minor inconvenience.

What overly broad reasoning. Flip it around and apply it to other things that you could do to hurt people and you can apply that reasoning to all parts of your life.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by philwelch on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @09:12PM (#6925461)
If you're driving a 5000 pound vehicle on public motorways, I don't see any problem with it. Driving is a privilege that's contingent upon following the rules, not a right.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by SamReidHughes on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @11:18PM (#6925874)
Actually, your worldview is wrong, and mine is right, and driving is a human right that is not contingent on giving up privacy rights, right to not have your car searched, or other rights.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by philwelch on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @02:01AM (#6926268)
If you have your own private motorway or racetrack with no one else on it, fine. But operating a vehicle on public streets and highways is a privilege. Not being run over by your drunk ass--that's a human fucking right.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by SamReidHughes on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @02:23AM (#6926308)
You seem so angry at the notion that somebody might have a different view than yours.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by corin_ on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @02:40AM (#6926342)
Maybe he got a little annoyed being spoken to by someone so smug they used the line "your worldview is wrong, and mine is right" without trying to be funny.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by SamReidHughes on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @04:11AM (#6926574)
My entire original reply was about philwelch blithely spouting his opinion as if it were relevant at all and that jmccree needed to hear it. It's a blatant replication of his smugness.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by vidarh on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @04:22AM (#6926609)
That's not how it came across to me at least. His reply came across as a reasonable part of a discussion, and you came across as being a total asshole. Your assertion it was a "blatant replication of his smugness" just reinforces that impression to me.

If that's not the impression you want to give, you might want to reconsider your approach.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by SamReidHughes on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @04:36AM (#6926654)
I'm not interested in people's impressions of me (and it doesn't bother me a bit if they think I'm an asshole -- I guess I'm just selfless that way).
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by placeybordeaux on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @09:59AM (#6927792)
That doesn't make you selfless, that makes you selfish, because you only care about what you think of your self and ignore what others think of you.

Enjoy it while the delusion of being right lasts!

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by adrianoconnor on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @06:33AM (#6927008)
Actually, his worldview closely matches the world out there, and yours doesn't, so technically his worldview is right.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by placeybordeaux on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @12:28AM (#6926068)
Are you serious?

Where did you get the idea that driving is a human right?

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by jmccree on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @11:32AM (#6928478)
Perhaps from the UN? "Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each State."

In the US, for probably 90% of the country there is no easily accessible public transit, cabs are financially infeasible for the working class, and attempting to walk down roads without sidewalks is very dangerous, and outright illegal for interstates and some highways. For a large percentage of the population, taking away the "privilege" of driving would entirely remove their right to move about the country freely.

When there is no alternative to driving to reach a grocery store, your place of employment, etc. can it really be considered a privilege?

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by philwelch on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @01:23PM (#6929411)
By that reasoning, people who either can't afford cars or can't be trusted with them (DUI convicts) have no ability to travel freely. There are lots of infrastructure changes that should be made to fix that problem, so enshrining the right to drive cars around is neither a complete solution nor an especially efficient or safe one.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by jmccree on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @02:52PM (#6930148)
Not being able to afford a car is an entirely different matter from the government forbidding you from driving one. As for DUI offenders etc, once they've served their sentence they should have the right to drive like anyone else. During their jail or probation sentence, obviously they forfeit many civil rights.

It's a far easier problem economically to focus on those who can't afford a car than to build out public transportation networks. Perhaps in the future when there are driverless cars everywhere, driving could be a privilege. As it is now, and for the foreseeable future, driving is a requirement for many americans. I moved to a city with public transit to avoid driving, but not everyone has that option, and it's important to remember that.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by philwelch on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @09:48PM (#6932588)
> It's a far easier problem economically to focus on those who can't afford a car than to build out public transportation networks.

That's a very shortsighted statement. The costs of universal driving in terms of property damage, human injury and death, unproductive time spent commuting, traffic, inefficient urban design, resource expenditure, road maintenance, etc. are significantly higher than those of public transit.

And if you don't believe me about people who simply can't afford to drive, what about people who physically can't drive, like the blind? Or people who physically shouldn't drive, but are sometimes forced to do so, like people who suffer from narcolepsy or get intermittent seizures?

The only reason people don't have the option of avoiding driving is because of poor public infrastructure decisions and in some cases poor personal decisions when we can easily afford to do otherwise. Why do we make these poor decisions? Because we think driving our fat asses around in 5000-pound behemoths is a "right" that needs to be accomodated everywhere, but walking and cycling aren't. It's not science fiction--people managed to do without cars for thousands of years.

Setting all of that aside, if you're operating a motor vehicle that could easily kill people out of inattention, you're putting the public at risk and you have a responsibility to demonstrate you can do so competently and responsibly. Not being killed by cars is a more important right.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by SamReidHughes on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @04:15AM (#6926582)
Use your brain and try thinking of one of the many plausible ways one might come up with that opinion.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by randac on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @07:55AM (#6927244)
Blunt force trauma?
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by DanBC on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @08:30PM (#6925302)
I think people are okay with it if police are friendly and polite, and if there's some benefit.

Mass breath-testing programme always get a few complaints, but I think they'd get a lot more if people realised how few drunk drivers are caught, or if police were rude. Blowing into a tube for X seconds is invasive, but sobriety tests (walking a straight line, touching your nose, etc) feel weirder to me. (I realise that in both US and UK neither of these can be done unless they think you're drunk, and GP post was talking about tests done with no suspicion of drunkeness).

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by girvo on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @10:06PM (#6925650)
Nah driving is way too dangerous to not have safety requirements involved like random breath testing. Driving kills far more people than it should, and drink driving is part of the reason.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by nitrogen on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @07:47PM (#6925075)
...car that don't turn on if you fail the breath test inside the car....

From what I've heard, these already exist for repeat DUIs.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by ewoodrich on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @08:44PM (#6925367)
They're called an ignition interlock [1]. And now all 50 states allow them for a DUII penalty in some form.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_interlock_device

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by improv32 on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @07:53PM (#6925104)
It's an inconvenience, but the thing that makes me most averse to that system is that it presumes guilt. Here in the US, cops are not allowed (though enforcement is lax) to detain you for any reason without reasonable suspicion that you've committed a crime.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by livepreview on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @08:45PM (#6925373)
Another perspective - what if they just followed cars leaving those bars and clubs for 1 mi., then returning and starting over after observing the driver's behavior?

I'm actually not opposed to breathalyzers inside of the car - it seems far less invasive than cops doing it for you, with the authority to ruin your life. If the car won't let you drive, call a friend or a taxi.

In any event, I'd prefer to avoid the hassle and feeling of being a suspected criminal that accompanies being stopped on the way home at a checkpoint. Papers please? (jk...?)

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by Anderkent on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @04:17AM (#6926596)
>Another perspective - what if they just followed cars leaving those bars and clubs for 1 mi., then returning and starting over after observing the driver's behavior?

You might notice someone being completely drunk that way, but not someone who's just moderately drunk reacting 10 times slower; unless something happens, of course, but you don't want that either.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by dusanbab on Thursday December 19, 2013 @05:24AM (#6933815)
We seem to have exactly the same thing going on in Johannesburg, South Africa. Cops / Metro police stop people all the time and start an inquisition about how much a person has been drinking etc, threatening a breathylzer, jail etc.

Of all the times it's happened to me, I've actually completed one breathylzer test (it was zero).

It's borderline harassment at best, at worst solicitation of a bribe. I always ask, "what caused you to stop me or aroused your suspicions that I have been drinking?" and I never get an answer.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by ewoodrich on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @06:05PM (#6924626)
> Urban criminal judges are almost completely unaccountable. Chicago judges are elected, and each election cycle, papers and blogs run horror stories about incompetent judges who no rational elector could vote for.

I don't exactly how it works in Illinois, but in many states, the bulk of judges on the bench were appointed due to a midterm vacancy, and only run as an incumbent. In Oregon, at least, this is a sort of unwritten rule, and retiring judges will leave during their term to assure a gubernatorial appointment.

As you say, judicial elections tend not be publicized or greatly contested. So this has the effect of creating an appointment-for-life due to the minimal likelihood of an incumbent loss.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by jevinskie on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @05:26PM (#6924431)
> Not only that, but people forget that most of the people police come into professional contact with are, in fact, criminals.

Really? You think that most of the people police come into contact with are criminals? How many arrests does a police officer make on an average night (X) and how many people does the officer contact (Y)? I'm guessing Y >> X.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by ewoodrich on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @05:59PM (#6924600)
Not to put words in tptacek's mouth, but I believe that assertion was related to his subsequent point about the recent trend of officers moving from "the beat" to patrol cars where they primarily respond to crimes. In the past, it was far more common for the bulk of the police force to spend time patrolling on foot and interacting with law abiding citizens and criminals alike.

Whereas now, except for certain exceptions such as in more "progressive" police forces or in downtown urban areas, most cops are somewhat detached from the public, except when responding to a crime.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by krakensden on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @11:36PM (#6925931)
> the recent trend of officers moving from "the beat" to patrol cars ...

Isn't this a 30 year old complaint, at least?

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by vellum on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @03:10AM (#6926413)
The LAPD started doing this in the 50s-60s, under Bill Parker.

Parker's experience with the larger by per capita force of his early career led him to estimate that fewer but more professional officers would mean less corruption. Additionally, the strategy of changing the beat posture to one of mobility led to change from foot patrols to one which favored police cars. Not incidentally, this also furthered Parker's belief that isolating his officers from the streets would reduce opportunities for corruption.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H._Parker_(police_offic...

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by ewoodrich on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @02:32AM (#6926323)
True enough. Recent defined as <35 years. Which in US historical terms, is still not so long.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by Loughla on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @05:55PM (#6924570)
You're arguing semantics and contributing nothing to the actual discussion.

Most of the people the officers come into contact with on a regular basis that have meaningful impacts on the way the officers view those around them are criminals. Will the cop remember the young man who helped an old lady across the road, or the young man who stabbed and raped the same old lady?

I come into contact with literally thousands of people every week, but the same 20-30 have an impact on my life, and are the ones that I would say I actually come into contact with. Don't argue semantics, it genuinely adds nothing to the conversation.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by jamesbritt on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @05:58PM (#6924597)
This is a very good point, given the number of casual interactions a typical cop might have on a given day.

Still, based on what I know from having worked with cops and having cop family members, the job can change you. Cops are prone to seeing a side of life most of use are lucky to only read about.

I think we all like to believe that were it us we would not become cynical and jaded about humanity but that seems to be tougher than one might expect.

It's sadly common for too many cops to start thinking that everyone they meet is guilty of something and they just haven't been caught (yet).

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by tptacek on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @06:20PM (#6924700)
"Professional contact". I chose my words carefully.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by vidarh on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @04:35AM (#6926652)
Unless you effectively narrowly define "professional contact" to mean situations where they are responding to a crime, I don't for a second believe you're right.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by tptacek on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @12:15PM (#6928832)
Almost, modulo the fact that the police are called into situations that may/may not involve crimes, but either way involve something bad enough that the police are called.

The CPD in Englewood don't spend a lot of time giving directions or registering bicycles or helping get cats out of trees.

Either way, my point was clear. If you disagree with it, I'm happy to hear why. But I'm not interested in this semantic argument.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by ben0x539 on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @05:48PM (#6924537)
Gonna argue that it's trivially true because everybody is effectively "a criminal", that is, guilty of some crime or other.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by aclevernickname on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @05:15PM (#6924368)
All it takes is an unrebutted affidavit to get a Judge to retire, or have disciplinary action taken against him. It's a wonder more people don't hold them accountable.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by gaulinmp on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @05:47PM (#6924532)
Can you provide more information?
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by grigri9 on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @07:29PM (#6925008)
This first page of google results is full of tax evasion quackery.

Do you have a handy link explaining this?

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by aclevernickname on Thursday December 19, 2013 @01:20AM (#6933201)
Sure, I'll do your homework for you. Start here: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Affidavit
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by saraid216 on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @05:23PM (#6924416)
It's because people don't know this.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by shanusmagnus on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @11:18PM (#6925871)
This is a beautiful and insightful comment. I used to live in the ghetto and knew cops that worked there, and after spending a couple of years listening to their stories the only thing that surprises me is how they're all not completely insane racist psychopaths. (A similar result comes from knowing some landlords.)
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by scotch_drinker on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @10:45AM (#6928129)
A little late to the party but the irony in your statement is that those people who the police are regularly in contact with were likely in regular contact with criminals themselves, often not of their own free will. Imagine a young man who grows up in the projects. The men he is in regular contact with are likely criminals, at least a large percentage of them. This would have the same psychological effect that policing has on veteran officers. If we need sweeping and creative reforms for police, we certainly need it for the poor minority kids who are destined to become the next generation of criminals those same police are going to have regular contact with.

We hold police to a higher standard because they are THE POLICE. They have take a job and a sworn oath to uphold the law. Yes they are human. Yes it is a largely difficult and thankless job. But under no circumstance does that obviate the fact that they chose to be officers. People born into the projects had no similar choice.

I have sympathy for the police and the situations they find themselves in but the fact remains that they are sworn to uphold the law regardless of the humans they have been in regular contact with.

Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by tptacek on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @11:19AM (#6928382)
I don't think this comment is responsive to anything I wrote.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by scotch_drinker on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @02:59PM (#6930191)
I guess it's not, more of an observation that I find interesting. It doesn't negate or confirm anything you said.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by yourbias on Tuesday December 17, 2013 @10:40PM (#6925755)
Check it out, a well-off white guy apologizing for the police on Hacker News. At least he's got some rage for The Man, in the form of elected officials he does nothing about. Gross and sad.
Re:I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice ... by Perceval on Wednesday December 18, 2013 @12:01AM (#6926004)
More like, a well-off white guy castigating another well-off white guy for writing an article about how he deliberately fucked with some working class cops to prove …whatever.