Quite the opposite. The HN crowd is becoming wary of cloud services, ordinary/average consumers aren't even aware of the NSA relevations.
Companies like AT&T have dedicated rooms for the NSA with spliced fiber to dumb daily terabits of data to. For decades. This is nothing new.
with regards to payments and consumer awareness of breaches and security issues, well, consumers today are becoming more AWARE of these facts brought on primarily by the Snowden leaks. Sure, a lot are still clueless and that won't change but there is still an inherent reluctance to trust new products/services/technologies especially when it comes to banking and finance.
The status quo are not early adopters. Never have been, never will be. The mainstream products are the success. When you sign up for an Amex or a Chase card or whatever bullshit they're selling on TV, they sell a sense of security, confidence, TRUST.
The problem with a startup like Coin (aside from the dozen or so issues mentioned above by me and a few others reading the thread now) is a narrow focus. They aren't really solving a problem, rather they're creating many more.
They've created a product that a handful of people in the SF Mission district will use to buy a $7 coffee and a croissant while they Tweet about it (from the Coin app hopefully). But this focus forgets the rest of the world (which is a big and lucrative place).
I think this is the problem with a lot of Bay Area startups. They're so caught up in the YC dinners, the SF startup scene, the networking, and the conferences that they limit their focus to a very narrow audience.
Yeah I know right, this is why I can never buy anything online, oh wait.
> () Banks might change their terms forbidding customers to create digital copies / clones of their card. As per card holder agreements, if you (or Coin) has ever read one, you don't own your card. You're fully bound by the terms of the agreement.
The bank that does not enforce these agreements will have my business. Bring it on.
> () There is the issue of PCI-DSS compliance. They mention they're "in the process of earning" it but this is a lengthy, difficult and _costly_ process ($100 k). They're using a loophole to ensure consumer peace of mind but this won't last at all.
Every startup has to start somewhere.
> () Adding a card seems flawed. You're asked to take a picture of the physical card after swiping to "prevent fraud" ok but unless Coin uses some advanced image processing/OCR to validate the card with the swiped data, you can take a picture of any card. So big fail here.
I've used the camera to accurately scan my card data into 3 different apps in the past week.
> () Coin seems to access a cloud service. Another major reason that this simply isn't going to work. If you've paid any attention to the NSA situation within the past 6-months, ordinary/average consumers (not the HN crowd) are becoming weary of cloud/hosted service. Not to mention, Coin will never ever work outside of the US (or San Francisco for that matter).
Just... stop.
> () Most users are totally fine with credit cards and big wallets. It's actually empowering to them. I spoke to a guy who loves the fact that he has every color Amex card! So in essence, this is geared towards a micro-niche of tech savvy SF/NY/LA crowd.
You talked to one guy who loves that he has every color Amex card, and then came to this conclusion?
> () Selecting a card by tapping the button - great. What if the waiter taps the same button? Or someone you're paying does? So many issues with this button here.
I've had my card charged twice before, so what you are telling me is that the same thing that happened to me before might happen to me again? Thanks.
> () The obvious issue of losing Coin and losing everything. People like backups. It's a mindset.
You mean like how people lose their wallets?
> () Battery issues with digitizing a non-battery product (credit card). Be in no doubt that more than half of users will forget to charge their credit card (as if we don't have enough things to charge). So you'll see people having lunches and presenting a dead Coin. And since you don't have any plastic, well, now you're screwed.
So once every 2 years, I might have to ask my wife or a friend to pay for my meal at a restaurant, and I trade that for the convenience of not having to carry a wallet? Where do I sign up?
> Products are supposed to make life better, easier, more intuitive.
If everyone was using Coin, and then you introduced me to the concept of a wallet, it would be downright laughable.
Adding a card seems flawed. You're asked to take a picture
of the physical card after swiping to "prevent fraud" ok
but unless Coin uses some advanced image processing/OCR to
validate the card with the swiped data, you can take a
picture of any card. So big fail here.
Most users are totally fine with credit cards and big
wallets.
The obvious issue of losing Coin and losing everything.
People like backups. It's a mindset.
Battery issues with digitizing a non-battery product
(credit card).
While I share the same concerns about privacy, compliance, card not present, and so on, I feel like you went out of your way to pick out problems, ignoring several things that were obvious from their FAQ.
I fail to see how Coin is a lack of backups. If having two copies of a card isn't 'having a backup' what is?
It's about losing all of your cards when you lose one. And most people aren't going to spend money ($100) on one - yet alone TWO - cards vs. the free cards they get from their banks 24/7. If I lose my Amex, I can walk into an Amex office and get a free card in under an hour. Or have it overnighted for free.
I think you're mistaken. There is a swipe. It perfectly mimics the magnetic strip of the bank-issued card. The issuer wouldn't even know you didn't use the real card.
It wouldn't work for physical imprints, but neither does my Chase Sapphire Visa card. Point being even card issuers are comfortable EOL'ing physical imprints at this point. And it's not used for anti-fraud these days (real-time authorizations of swipes have replaced that); it's just a backup for when merchant systems are down.
I disagree. I sent the Coin video to my technology phobic parents in the midwest. They are hesitant to use most smartphone apps and online banking but they were really excited about Coin and could see themselves using it. It really appeals to them that 1) it's only slightly more complicated to use than a regular credit card (whereas, say, online banking requires you to learn a relatively elaborate user interface) and 2) keeps them from having to actively worry about leaving a card or wallet behind.
When you make a user interface a slight variation of something the user is already very familiar with, you can draw in the less tech-savvy because it's less intimidating. It's the same reason why my parents are avid Dropbox users but it's hard to get them to try new web apps.
Clearly you didn't read the site. Maybe you should pay more attention to things you criticize.
What's your point? None
I actually forgot to add something to my original critique: if your device (iPhone) dies, and Coin isn't authenticated you can't use your card(s)!! Haha
Can't believe I missed this. There's another bullet of flaws to add.
Their FAQ is vague and doesn't really answer any questions, especially the important ones. They attempt to give clever and confronting responses to serious questions and most people can see right through that. Comments on their FAQ like "Should last" and "a lot can happen between now and Summer 2014" - get out here. If you want customers to pay (a premium) for an experimental product - be concrete and firm.
They quite clearly state the usage pattern for the 2 year figure. From said FAQ site (https://onlycoin.com/support/faq/)
Q. How do you figure that a Coin will last 2 years? What constitutes
normal usage?
A. Here’s how we modeled typical usage. On a daily basis, we assume
you’ll toggle which card you want to use and swipe your Coin 10-20 times
a day. In addition, you may adjust which cards you want to store on your
Coin a few times a week. Initially when you’re getting to know your Coin
you will likely be syncing often. Over time we find that most people
sync much less frequently once his or her cards are on a Coin. If you
swipe and sync more frequently on a consistent basis, your Coin’s
battery will drain more quickly.Apparently this criticism is not valid, since physical imprints / swipes are rare in Europe.
Perhaps learn/read about how the payments process with respect to credit card transactions and chargebacks work in the US before commenting.
Additionally, read about Coin, which doesn't work in Europe and doesn't support EMV.
:facepalm:
Dead in the water - as much as I would personally like to see them succeed.
The biggest problems here are security.
() Merchants will hate it since there is no physical imprint / swipe of the bank-issued card. This will lead to chargebacks in favor of the customer. So this alone kills this company/product.
() Banks might change their terms forbidding customers to create digital copies / clones of their card. As per card holder agreements, if you (or Coin) has ever read one, you don't own your card. You're fully bound by the terms of the agreement.
() There is the issue of PCI-DSS compliance. They mention they're "in the process of earning" it but this is a lengthy, difficult and _costly_ process ($100 k). They're using a loophole to ensure consumer peace of mind but this won't last at all.
() Adding a card seems flawed. You're asked to take a picture of the physical card after swiping to "prevent fraud" ok but unless Coin uses some advanced image processing/OCR to validate the card with the swiped data, you can take a picture of any card. So big fail here.
() Coin seems to access a cloud service. Another major reason that this simply isn't going to work. If you've paid any attention to the NSA situation within the past 6-months, ordinary/average consumers (not the HN crowd) are becoming weary of cloud/hosted service. Not to mention, Coin will never ever work outside of the US (or San Francisco for that matter).
Practical usability problems:
() Most users are totally fine with credit cards and big wallets. It's actually empowering to them. I spoke to a guy who loves the fact that he has every color Amex card! So in essence, this is geared towards a micro-niche of tech savvy SF/NY/LA crowd.
() Selecting a card by tapping the button - great. What if the waiter taps the same button? Or someone you're paying does? So many issues with this button here.
"We’ve designed the button to toggle cards in a way that makes it difficult to trigger a "press" unintentionally" -- yeah, well most of the time, credit card fraud is an intentional act. What a stupid response. And quite frankly, offensive to anyone with half a brain.
() The obvious issue of losing Coin and losing everything. People like backups. It's a mindset.
() Battery issues with digitizing a non-battery product (credit card). Be in no doubt that more than half of users will forget to charge their credit card (as if we don't have enough things to charge). So you'll see people having lunches and presenting a dead Coin. And since you don't have any plastic, well, now you're screwed.
Products are supposed to make life better, easier, more intuitive.
Conceptually, it sort of makes sense. But the execution is flawed in so many ways.
You're being sold a product that now requires more steps than you did before. And that is the killer fellow HN'ers.
I don't want to have to sync, take photos, select a card by pushing a button, make sure it's within range to my device, update the app when needed for it to work, deal with merchants who won't take it, CHARGE my credit card (!), deal with issues because I tapped/selected the wrong card - vs - take out and swipe. Done.
Fuck that.
The product is inherently flawed