Here's how I deal with users who steal

Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by pseut on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @03:51AM (#6632529)

This was software aimed at people seriously studying the bible with a reminder that would come up when they're reflecting on their religion. And you think that's irrelevant?

They've already pirated the software so it's not morality, it's guilt.

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by hobbes on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @05:49AM (#6632902)

Is it even meaningful to talk of guilt without morality?

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by existencebox on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @08:12AM (#6633442)

While both are social responses derived from some societal "standard" and ones interaction with it; the former, I typically think of, as being more of an involuntary reaction, whereas the later is thought of as motivating conscious behavior. The often hypocritical actions of people who will do something until they get caught, is the big example. Clearly it is not against someones personal morals, but it does generate a response due to a negative interaction with another member of society, which in many cases might be motivated by guilt.

Terrible wording aside, I think the two have both intersecting and unique qualities, guilt and morality, that depending on the person will be called into play at various points in the decision making process.

Disclaimer: IANAbehaviorist, I was just raised by one, and nearly married to one.

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by mistercow on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @06:23AM (#6633030)

I read a study a while back (and I cannot seem to find it now, annoyingly) that found that people with high moral status (priests, judges, etc.) behaved less morally than ordinary people. Which makes sense in terms of evolution; if you're already viewed by everyone as moral, acting morally is a waste of resources and opportunities.

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by ams6110 on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @08:30AM (#6633526)

Your morality is how you behave when nobody's watching.

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by Flimm on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @10:01AM (#6634102)

Which set of morals were used? How were people's morality assessed? How comprehensive was it? What about secret behaviour? In terms of evolution, surely there are benefits to behaving morally other than reciprocation and social status.

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by meric on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @03:41AM (#6632503)

The key I think is people reading the bible have their minds engaged in the thoughts of morality.

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by TeMPOraL on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @03:53AM (#6632531)

In my anecdotal evidence there's actually huge, but hey, that's exactly what we have science for.

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by rmc on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @07:27AM (#6633247)

A study like that would be almost impossible to do. A lot depends on how you define "moral". Is telling a gay person "Homosexuality is wrong" moral or immoral? Is admitting that "Mohammed is the final messanger of God" moral or immoral? Is calling the Pope God's representative on earth moral or immoral? Is calling Jesus devine moral or immoral? Until you can define what you're trying to measure, you cannot do any study.

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by mcherm on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @08:25AM (#6633508)

> Is telling a gay person "Homosexuality is wrong" moral or immoral?

Maybe. Because it is a question on which significant numbers of people differ, it would be a poor choice for such a study.

> Is admitting that "Mohammed is the final messanger [sic] of God" moral or immoral?

No.

> Is calling the Pope God's representative on earth moral or immoral?

No.

> Is calling Jesus devine [sic] moral or immoral?

No.

> Until you can define what you're trying to measure, you cannot do any study.

Not every action is moral or immoral, and some actions have a moral component but it is debated which is preferable. On the other hand, LOTS of actions have clearly defined and widely accepted morality. Construct your study so you measure whether participants take more than their share of M&Ms or whether they cheat on the test when they think it will be undetectable.

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by rmc on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @10:56AM (#6634561)

> Not every action is moral or immoral

True, but there are some actions which some people think are moral, and some think are immoral. The religious questions I gave are like that. People disagree about whether an action is moral or immoral. Some Christians will think that it's moral and right and good to call Jesus divine (and a sin and immoral to claim the opposite), whereas some (say) Muslims will think that it's blashpemy and wrong and immoral to call Jesus divine (and a moral and good thing to claim the opposite).

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by Fargren on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @06:01PM (#6637806)

Asumming that a subset of moral questions have black an white answers (or nearly), couldn't the study just look only at those questions?

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by mcv on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @05:16AM (#6632793)

Another factor might be that it's probably easier to admit you're illegally reading the bible, than illegally watching porn.

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by ye on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @06:21AM (#6633021)

The evidence is actually to the contrary.

The incarceration rates of atheists vs christians in the US are quite telling.

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by mistercow on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @06:46AM (#6633113)

There are two problems with that:

1. I don't think the data actually exists. The commonly cited figure of 0.2% atheists is extremely dubious.

2. There are too many confounding factors and hidden variables. A plurality of Hindus speak Hindi, but believing in Hinduism neither causes, nor is caused by speaking Hindi. Likewise, if atheists are underrepresented in prisons, there are just too many simple demographic explanations to draw any conclusions about morality.

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by ye on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @02:36PM (#6636443)

Your opinion about the cited figure is much more dubious than the data we got from an independent research analyst who didn't care for the data.

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by Sagat on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @08:48AM (#6633624)

Be careful when trying to untangle correlation and causation: it may well be that poor people and criminals are more likely to turn to religion. After all, atheism is mainly found in more educated populations.

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by QuiteMouse on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @05:32PM (#6637622)

You don't want to be an outlier in the prison system. If you're not on board with everyone else, there is a real possibility that you're going to get hurt. I think this is part of the reason Atheists are so underrepresented in the prison population. Simple self-preservation.

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by TeMPOraL on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @06:25AM (#6633035)

Care to provide a reference to some numbers for the lazy folks like me? ;).

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Re:Here's how I deal with users who steal by mike_esspe on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @08:19AM (#6633471)

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/07/16/what...

Seems like 0.07% from survey by Federal Bureau of Prisons.

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