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Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by nmridul on Saturday October 26, 2013 @08:15PM (#6620067)
The same experience here. My parents also use Ubuntu now (firefox, Libre office).

The main issue with Linux is, some one needs to install and setup everything for them. Finding and installing that missing wifi driver is not something that they can do.

Windows installation is breeze, just pop-in the disk and it will install everything for you. Hope pre-installed ubuntu systems get common.

Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by davexunit on Saturday October 26, 2013 @09:36PM (#6620392)
>Finding and installing that missing wifi driver

That "missing" wifi driver is not there because it's proprietary. It doesn't make sense to blame a free operating system for faulty hardware. In any case, I know that in Ubuntu, the user is informed of nonfree drivers being available and it's trivial to install the drivers from that point.

Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by eropple on Sunday October 27, 2013 @03:46AM (#6621173)
> It doesn't make sense to blame a free operating system for faulty hardware.

This mindset is toxic because it does not adequately think about the end user. I mean--drivers? What's a driver? Why do I, a user, care that it's difficult for Ubuntu to do something that Windows does? It doesn't work, that's all I care about.

Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by Mikeb85 on Sunday October 27, 2013 @04:31AM (#6621271)
> Why do I, a user, care that it's difficult for Ubuntu to do something that Windows does?

It's not Ubuntu that can't do it. It's the hardware manufacturer that refuses to do it.

I personally choose to vote with my feet. I only buy computer hardware/software that works with Linux. If someone refuses to support Linux, they don't get my business.

If everyone does this, eventually everyone will support Linux or go out of business.

There isn't anything that Linux can't technically do. It's simply a matter of who is willing to support Linux.

Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by eropple on Sunday October 27, 2013 @05:48AM (#6621414)
> It's not Ubuntu that can't do it. It's the hardware manufacturer that refuses to do it.

Thanks for the explanation, but I've written (very simple) Linux device drivers before, I am aware. :) But my point was that you are making a distinction that simply does not matter to the end users that are under discussion. That a hardware manufacturer doesn't produce drivers for Linux doesn't change that, to a user, "Windows can do this and Linux can't."

It's great that you buy stuff that works with Linux. Linux's problem for normal people is that it doesn't work with everything. Windows does work with everything that a normal person is likely to run into and OS X comes pretty close to the same.

Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by Mikeb85 on Sunday October 27, 2013 @10:17PM (#6624709)
I think the average user understands better than you give them credit, since OSX, iOS, Android, and Windows RT/Phone have fragmented the device OS market... The computing scene is no longer a MS monopoly, but is fragmented between a bunch of incompatible OSes. Nowadays that means you buy peripherals that adhere to standards, or that don't. It's in the manufacturers' interests to create products based on standards, which of course will work with Linux...

When my wife sees that her iPhone is a pain to connect to the computer, to her car, can't mirror to our TV, etc..., yet her Android tablet does perfectly, she doesn't blame the computer, car and TV...

Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by bulatb on Sunday October 27, 2013 @05:11AM (#6621349)
The user doesn't care whose fault it is. If the WiFi doesn't work in Linux, but it worked fine under Windows, then Linux is worse.
Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by ezequiel-garzon on Sunday October 27, 2013 @02:41AM (#6621049)
But doesn't Ubuntu give you the option of installing third-party software? Why doesn't this take care of such issues?
Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by girvo on Sunday October 27, 2013 @04:33AM (#6621277)
It does, at least for hardware I've installed that requires a proprietary driver -- on first boot, it pops the screen asking to install it. That's my experience anyway.
Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by DSMan195276 on Saturday October 26, 2013 @09:16PM (#6620301)
Honestly, I've had better luck installing Ubuntu or Mint then I ever have with Windows. Assuming that a Linux driver exists, the only case I've ever seen a driver not get used automatically is with proprietary drivers. Even then, it's usually just one more click on a GUI that tells you which ones were not used.

For Windows, at best everything is working except for graphics. Even then though, the drivers are usually not the same one's the OEM used, and you have to go Googling to find the correct stuff and current versions.

I don't disagree with you though, installing an OS is not something a normal user should be doing, even if the install dead easy. But as far as installing goes, I've always found Ubuntu and similar Linux's to be miles ahead of Windows at this point when considering ease of install and usability after install.

Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by jabits on Saturday October 26, 2013 @11:45PM (#6620672)
I honestly cannot relate to this at all. I have not had Windows drivers issues in years, up to and including Windows 8.1.
Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by _random_ on Sunday October 27, 2013 @07:36AM (#6621622)
Neither did I. It just works.
Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by itsboring on Saturday October 26, 2013 @09:18PM (#6620312)
At the very least, you don't have to fucking activate it. I hate Microsoft activation with a passion.
Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by marcloney on Saturday October 26, 2013 @10:37PM (#6620515)
I recently bought a new laptop and dual boot Windows 8 and Ubuntu 13.04. It took me 3 hours to get all the drivers working in Windows whilst the only issue I had with Ubuntu was the fact my video card drivers (ofcourse, Nvidia) were going to be proprietary.
Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by itsboring on Saturday October 26, 2013 @08:20PM (#6620092)
Very true, if there are driver problems then it becomes a big ordeal. However, we must consider that most Windows installations are set up by an OEM, and in my case, it was already set up by me. In those situations, what matters most is the usability of the system after it's already set up.

I doubt my parents would be able to install a fresh copy of either OS without my help.

Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by jrs99 on Saturday October 26, 2013 @09:26PM (#6620356)
My parents had no problems. They went on google, typed in the exact error messages, and found step by step instructions for basically every problem they had without really understanding what they were doing.
Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by shmerl on Saturday October 26, 2013 @09:37PM (#6620401)
> Windows installation is breeze

You can have exactly the same problems with drivers. Especially on laptops which came with one type of Windows, while you are trying to installer some newer one. Most non technical people can't install Windows themselves anyway. So installation has zero advantage against Linux, especially these days when Linux installation is easy. The main advantage of Windows is like before - it comes preinstalled in the vast majority of cases.

Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by asveikau on Saturday October 26, 2013 @08:30PM (#6620121)
> Windows installation is breeze, just pop-in the disk and it will install everything for you.

Actually, in the majority of cases your OEM or your IT department does this. It's not uncommon to have missing drivers when doing a clean install from the stock image on the retail DVD.

(Disclaimer: I have some history with this as I used to work in the team that created Windows Setup.)

Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by lespea on Saturday October 26, 2013 @08:40PM (#6620162)
That was true back in the xp days but I haven't had to manually hunt down drivers in years. Although I still manually install my graphics drivers since the ones you get through windows update aren't near as current.
Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by stormbrew on Saturday October 26, 2013 @09:12PM (#6620286)
It's definitely still true. Every windows install from a non-OEM copy in the last few years has required me to sneakernet my network drivers before I could do anything (including get other drivers). Linux has actually been much better for this since the release cycles are shorter and the barrier to getting a driver officially included seems lower (requires WHQL certification on windows, which presumably is not only work but costs money).

It's actually been quite a while since I've had to do the driver hunt for Linux, but it's been routine with windows (unless you use the default oem install, obviously).

Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by asveikau on Sunday October 27, 2013 @12:52AM (#6620829)
I guess one thing Windows does well is pulling drivers from Windows Update. So if your network card is supported there is a good chance you'll get things working. Unfortunately not every network card you can throw at it will work out of the box.
Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by ekimekim on Sunday October 27, 2013 @02:46AM (#6621062)
Pretty much every time I install windows (only for the games) the first step is to boot into linux, download a windows driver for my network card, then boot into windows to install it so I can start downloading other drivers.
Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by asveikau on Saturday October 26, 2013 @08:47PM (#6620192)
Depends a lot on your hardware. I've had the most problems with network drivers. With 7.
Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by yuhong on Saturday October 26, 2013 @09:10PM (#6620279)
I think that is also partly because XP lasted a very long time.
Re:My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work... by xradionut on Sunday October 27, 2013 @09:54AM (#6621943)
"Windows installation is breeze, just pop-in the disk and it will install everything for you."

LOL! I recent had to reinstall Windows 7 on a machine that was shipped with it. The manufacturers recovery disk didn't have the drivers for system. It took a couple of hours jumping through hoops to get the system up, then a couple of more hours to wait for Windows Update.

I had Linux Mint installed in less than one third the time the time with some minor issues with the wireless configuration.