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Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by fear91 on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:00AM (#6571719)
I guess the June search-algorithm updates really worked. (Kicking out everyone that earns without giving Google it's piece of the pie).

Google keeps removing small business websites from its results, forcing them to use Ad-Words. This strategy cannot be sustained unless they want 100% commercial / 100% junk results. I wonder what will they do in the future.

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by moultano on Friday October 18, 2013 @01:39PM (#6572688)
Google does not make ranking changes based on revenue. We don't even collect statistics about that for ranking changes. Worrying about the fate of small sites in Google's rankings is a reasonable concern, and one that we share. But whatever you think we are doing incorrectly in ranking, it has nothing to do with making more money.
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by orealy on Tuesday October 22, 2013 @12:58AM (#6589872)
What brings the question is 10+ straight quarters of double-digit increases in paid clicks despite only single digit increases in traffic.

That could be

- More ads, in places where organic used to be - Lower quality organic results

From where I sit, neither of those reflect an engineer's preference. I'd be more interested in hearing an explanation for a runaway ad click growth than hearing a very specific denial.

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by iamhungry on Friday October 18, 2013 @01:58PM (#6572866)
We don't even collect statistics about that for ranking changes.

Who's "we"? Are you Larry Page to speak with such confidence? Nope, just a lowly engineer being observed by hundreds of Stanford and ivy League MBAs as your changes impact Ad Clicks, the golden eggs.

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by moultano on Friday October 18, 2013 @02:10PM (#6572954)
I know you're basically just trolling, but I'll reply seriously anyways.

I'm one of the people who makes changes to Google's rankings. As a result, for any change I want to make, I have to collect the statistics to justify it. This is done with the help of an analyst who has a different reporting chain from the ranking engineers in order to ensure that they remain unbiased. These statistics include things like what results people click on, how often people hit "next page," how humans rate the results before and after the change, etc. (None of these statistics involve ads or revenue in any way.) Once we've collected those statistics, the analyst writes up a report about the change summarizing their findings and pointing out any areas of concern.

This report is then presented at a weekly launch meeting, where the ranking leads review each change both for its metrics and for its complexity, ongoing infrastructure cost, etc. and make a decision about whether to launch it. You can view an example launch meeting here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtRJXnXgE-A

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by nostrademons on Friday October 18, 2013 @08:34PM (#6574813)
FWIW, for most engineers the entire Search org chart, all the way up to Larry, is engineers. Larry was an engineer, Alan Eustace was a hardware engineer, Amit Singhal is an engineer. In my management chain there are two people with an M.S. in computer science (Larry is one of them), zero with MBAs, and everybody else has a Ph.D in CS.

If your mental model of Google is a bunch of MBAs who tell engineers what to do, you're quite incorrect. That's Microsoft.

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by hugofirth on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:09AM (#6571785)
Anti-competitive lobbies, hugely funded by Google's competitors, have tried to make that stick in the US and EU. They have largely failed to do so both times. Prove it :)
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by fear91 on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:25AM (#6571892)
I guess since Google got a court verdict stating that their search results are their "opinion" and thus "free speech", they cannot be really attacked from this point. Add to that the fact that their algorithm is top-secret and probably heavily compartmentalized and it becomes even harder.

I am not arguing whether Google breaks a law or not, I simply say that they hurt the smaller players. Getting rankings is getting harder and harder with each update. Soon, paying for AdWords will be the only affordable option.

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by makomk on Friday October 18, 2013 @05:17PM (#6574067)
Some of the smaller players who've been complaining to the EU really, really needed to be hurt. They were spamming up the search results with their crappy "vertical search" pages which couldn't actually find anything - they just relied on SEO to get them ranked above actual search results and then hoped people would get desperate enough to click them.
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by agilord on Friday October 18, 2013 @12:07PM (#6572112)
You do realize, that because of the increase of content publishers, getting ranking becomes harder anyway (independent to Google).
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by iamhungry on Friday October 18, 2013 @12:11PM (#6572137)
This is true but when Google's ad clicks increase by 20+% a quarter what you said is irrelevant, Google is keeping almost all the clicks for Adwords. So you're competing with Google's Youtube, Google Local, Google Images, and the whole shebang. Guess who's winning?
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by hugofirth on Friday October 18, 2013 @12:24PM (#6572203)
As far as I see it there is something of a chicken and egg problem here. Google has often maintained, publicly, that its search algorithm is only interested in providing the most utility to end-users.

To an extent (and in some cases, I except that there are exceptions) this holds true:

If I google for a video streaming website I want Youtube to be at the top of the list. Semantically that is the correct answer to the "question" implied by the search.

So:

Are google services popular because they are highly represented in google's search results?

-OR-

Are google services highly represented in google's search results because they are popular.

I absolutely do not believe that google should feel pressured to artificially demote its own offerings over fears of anti-competition litigation/legislation. On the other hand I can see an argument for clearly marking a result that points to a google service as 'belonging' to google.

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by NathanKP on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:05AM (#6571750)
I'm no Google fanboy but what you are saying is a pretty strong accusation. Where is the data to back what you are claiming Google is doing?
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by sharkweek on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:15AM (#6571818)
I'm not going to defend the overall conspiracy here but I totally buy into the theory that Google would prefer a big brand ranking over several small businesses...

The logic in my mind is -- Google wants the rankings to be unequivocally trustworthy, e.g., if I'm searching for an espresso machine, would I trust a small ecommerce shop where the experience could be terrible or do we just throw an Amazon or Bed Bath and Beyond result at the top because those are vetted companies.

Sure, the little guy has to grind to get a better ranking and free traffic, but it should in the long term encourage better behavior by companies as they attempt to earn that trust.

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by anon1385 on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:17AM (#6571831)
http://i.imgur.com/eBtzYic.png see any organic search results there?
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by sharkweek on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:21AM (#6571865)
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by anon1385 on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:41AM (#6571971)
Ads depend on your location etc. We have had a discussion about this same example before and plenty of people got similar results: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6533287 e.g. http://i.imgur.com/mhJhc5W.png and http://i.imgur.com/2iFv7Yf.png

And for what it's worth, this is the result I got just now in the UK: http://i.imgur.com/YHXngwR.png

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by krelian on Friday October 18, 2013 @12:55PM (#6572405)
You are a showing a handpicked example which is disingenuous and not representative of real user experience. You decided to include a one-time cookie message that pushes down the content and not include the actual search results which are further down the page. FWIW the visitor that used this query got a clear answer to what bitcoin is and I'm pretty sure that any of the "small businesses" that are advertising in that spot are not deserving to be the first result for that query anyway so no conspiracy here.
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by nonchalance on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:46AM (#6572000)
It could be because the plus500.co.uk is manifestly UK (and people saying otherwise are probably based in the US).
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by anon1385 on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:51AM (#6572028)
Yes, it's just an example. I'm sure there are other terms that get more ads in the US than the UK. The point isn't this exact search term, it's that there are combinations of searches+locations that return pages where the entire of the visible page is filled with ads or google content and you have to scroll to see any real results at all.
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by polshaw on Friday October 18, 2013 @12:06PM (#6572106)
Interestingly I (also UK) got the same, except missing the ad about mining. Isn't this tailoring (presumably with some basis in the users' behaviour) a substantial part of what is increasing their revenues (thus share price)?
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by csomar on Friday October 18, 2013 @02:25PM (#6573081)
Try disabling the Ad Blocker.
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by ChrisClark on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:41AM (#6571970)
How did you get so many ads? Without adblock I see this: http://i.imgur.com/Djdz2wQ.png
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by psbp on Friday October 18, 2013 @02:28PM (#6573109)
It looks like a fake.
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by ChrisClark on Saturday October 19, 2013 @05:28PM (#6577926)
Or he has malware that inserts ads into places trying to look legit. I'm surprised at how common that is. :(
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by notatoad on Friday October 18, 2013 @01:05PM (#6572463)
this bullshit example gets trotted out every time somebody tries to prove this point, but it never gets any more relevant.

yes, google shows a lot of ads for a vague, contextless search query. but nobody ever searches for anything so vague unless they're trying to prove how google search results are going down the toilet. if you search for the name of a category of information, it's impossible to know what aspect is relevant to you and you're either going to get ads or irrelevant results, and google has chosen to serve ads instead of irrelevant results..

try searching for bitcoin mining, bitcoin exchange, etc, and you'll see relevant results.

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by mehster on Tuesday October 22, 2013 @06:20AM (#6590793)
Try this one:

flights from los angeles to las vegas

Not sure if the organic results are relevant, because I can't see any.

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by antsar on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:40AM (#6571966)
Just to show that sharkweek's reply isn't an outlier, here is the same search with adblock turned off, from a US address.

http://i.imgur.com/Ed0UYER.png

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by mh- on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:45AM (#6571994)
I see the same for that particular query, but have seen result pages that fit the mix of the original screenshot.
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by smtddr on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:57AM (#6572060)
me too! (California Bay Area) http://i.imgur.com/yaEh1xY.png

This is kinda fun. I'd like a website that showed screenshots of popular search-results on Google from across the world.

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by iamhungry on Friday October 18, 2013 @12:09PM (#6572125)
I get the same--but with ad blockers on
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by CatMtKing on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:52AM (#6572036)
Google's profile of you probably adjusts the number of ad results that show up. If so, then if you use the service anonymously, you'd probably get the whole shebang.
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by iamhungry on Friday October 18, 2013 @12:07PM (#6572116)
Data straight from Google's mouth. Their Google properties ad clicks increased by 22%, an astounding number when Adsense stayed flat. All ads above fold is a great steroid shot but horrible long term strategy.
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by hvass on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:09AM (#6571786)
And this is based on what? If people are 'forced' to use AdWords it would be because of the move towards 100% not provided keywords in natural search, thus nudging you to go into AdWords to see the full search report.
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by tonfa on Saturday October 19, 2013 @10:56AM (#6576594)
I really don't understand that. What is the relation between AdWords and not having keywords provided? Won't the search query report in adwords have actually less data than what you get for free with webmaster tools?

(With adwords you will only see the traffic from the keywords you decided to bid on, while webmaster tools will show all the organic traffic, including segments you didn't know about).

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by krelian on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:07AM (#6571767)
You have some examples? I'll be happy to see because as someone who searches I'm pretty happy with the results I'm seeing.
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by 90002 on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:37AM (#6571945)
Can you provide any data support this claim? I haven't recognized massive removal of small business websites, but I may be wrong.
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by hartator on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:05AM (#6571749)
We notice some changes too since june, you think it's too push people to buy adwords? I feel too that small websites have trouble to rank against bigger ones.
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by drzaiusapelord on Friday October 18, 2013 @11:08AM (#6571775)
This is no conspiracy. Ignoring that larger sites have better page rank, they can also spend more on SEO.

Ma and Pop's widget shop is a wordpress clunker built by their teen son. He's not spending 20 hours a week watching metrics and messing with SEO. $big_shop_webmaster certainly is.

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by judk on Friday October 18, 2013 @12:00PM (#6572080)
That's a bug. Google claims that quality content wins over SEO. And WordPress is professionally written software.
Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by Jtsummers on Friday October 18, 2013 @12:30PM (#6572241)
> And WordPress is professionally written software.

So are many web servers, why would this affect ranking? Content, not platform should be the determiner (though some hosted content might get penalized because of others using the same host).

Re:Google shares hit $1,000 after strong earnings by cylinder on Friday October 18, 2013 @04:47PM (#6573916)
I started with adWords and then quickly got into the first page for organic. It doesn't matter, I still get negligible organic traffic, it's almost all paid. Seems like consumers have been trained to go to adwords results when they're looking for a service or good they want to pay for, and organic when searching pure information (free).