News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple Updates iMac by Pxtl on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @09:59AM (#6437878)
I'm mostly disappointed in how poor the Win32-based hardware vendors are at following Apple's lead. Apple is narrowing the cost gap in their hardware, and their quality is still leaps and bounds ahead of the competitors.

If I want to buy a solid all-in-one device with a minimally usable on-board videocard so I could fire up the occasional game (not a hardcore gaming rig but keeping lighter fare an option) then the competitors are quite close to Apple in cost.

It's the same in laptops - while geeks argue about performance, Apple's devices have build-quality that blows everything else out of the water. If you start looking at similarly-constructed competitors, Apple's prices don't seem crazy at all.

Re:Apple Updates iMac by eli on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:04AM (#6437927)
Agreed. Apple is still expensive but if you want build quality, I think it's the clear winner. And I think a whole lot of people care more about build quality than gaming performance.
Re:Apple Updates iMac by kunai on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:39AM (#6438161)
This is false and misleading. ThinkPads, while the new ones aren't too much to my taste, are better-constructed, more fully-featured, and more understated than MacBooks.

On the AIO side, there are plenty of desktops from Dell and Lenovo that compete quite well.

I'm really sick of how every tiniest bit of Apple news is upvoted to the front page. When did a thousand fanboys join HN? I thought this forum was supposed to be about hacking, not hipster products made in Chinese sweatshops.

Re:Apple Updates iMac by rayiner on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @11:18AM (#6438435)
I'll grant you understated, but Thinkpads are not better-constructed. The Macbooks are solid pieces of aluminum. I bought an X220 for my dad and it's a solid machine too, but it doesn't have the same rigidity and has more moving parts to go wrong.
Re:Apple Updates iMac by ctb_mg on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @12:44PM (#6438995)
Durability is more than feeling solid and not having moving parts. Lenovo do some crazy durability tests [1]. Does Apple do the same?

[1]: http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-11-26/news...

Re:Apple Updates iMac by rayiner on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @01:15PM (#6439241)
That link is marketing fluff. You don't need to take a laptop to Everest to understand that moving part are prone to breakage over time or that a rigid casing will better-protect interior parts. Carbon fiber is prone to cracking while aluminum will generally just dent.
Re:Apple Updates iMac by ctb_mg on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @02:22PM (#6439739)
Sorry, let me re-phrase. What objective tests does Apple do to ensure reliability/durability?
Re:Apple Updates iMac by gaius on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:47AM (#6438209)
Yes for a long time, Thinkpads have been of comparable build quality to MBPs, whether you like the "design" (as opposed to, the design) is entirely subjective. Kudos to Lenovo for not letting the build quality slip.
Re:Apple Updates iMac by nknighthb on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:53AM (#6438252)
I just looked at Lenovo's site. I see plastic cases with mechanical latches. This is not "comparable build quality".
Re:Apple Updates iMac by Pxtl on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @11:09AM (#6438356)
Yeah, I'm inclined to think that Lenovo is surfing on Thinkpad's stellar reputation that predates the jump in quality Apple gave the industry.

Thinkpad used to be the best laptops on the market, and in many ways they're still kinda like the old thinkpads. But Apple raised the bar and Lenovo didn't bother following the bar up. I've actually found that some of the higher-end Dell devices are the best at being "apple for Win32 users" but the problem is nobody wants to trust Dell because they make so much utter crap.

Re:Apple Updates iMac by Moto7451 on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @12:16PM (#6438802)
I've suggested MacBooks to Windows users as solid, if expensive, Windows machines. The ones that went for it have been happy with the setup.
Re:Apple Updates iMac by ctb_mg on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @12:36PM (#6438935)
The ThinkPad series has had, for as long as I can remember (including the ThinkPad I got last Christmas), a magnesium rollcage/inner frame [1]. Build quality is more than what you see with your eyes.

Sure, it's not pretty and isn't unibody, but that doesn't mean the build quality is uncomparable if you're looking at it from a "ruggedness" perspective.

Disclaimer: I owned and used a 13" unibody macbook pro for 3 years.

[1] http://www.lenovo.com/us/laptop/Thinkpad-notebooks/

Re:Apple Updates iMac by nknighthb on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @12:57PM (#6439088)
When the plastic case breaks, can I just take it all off and safely/comfortably use the laptop with only its inner frame? No? Then it's not comparable.

When the plastic latches break off, will my laptop stay closed? No? Then it's not comparable.

When the slider for the latches breaks off, can I still easily and comfortably open my laptop? No? Then it's not comparable.

Re:Apple Updates iMac by ctb_mg on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @02:31PM (#6439790)
I don't know why you're using removal of the outer case in the event of damage as a comparison of durability. Can you expand on the reasoning here? You can't take off the unibody of a MBP if the case is dented or damaged and still use it safely/comfortably.

My thinkpad doesn't have mechanical latches for anything -- not even a wifi enable/disable switch. I don't know about the entire series of thinkpads. The lid closes and opens smoothly, no latching mechanism -- and stays in the position you leave it in. It's just as smooth if not smoother than my old 2009 MBP.

On the subject of the stigma with 'plastic' cases -- we are not talking about cheap plastic here. The bottom of the laptop is metal of some kind. Same with the edges. The top of the lid is some sort of rubberized metal. The palm rests/speaker area is the only plastic I can find, and it has a similar texture and "solid feel" to the stuff I find on my prosumer DSLR -- something also designed to be rugged.

Re:Apple Updates iMac by nknighthb on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @03:15PM (#6440070)
> I don't know why you're using removal of the outer case in the event of damage as a comparison of durability.

Because plastic breaks easily. Aluminum is far more durable. I've had no trouble at all with my PowerBook and MacBook Pro cases breaking or even substantially degrading, but every plastic laptop I've ever used has looked like it was hit by a bomb inside a year.

> My thinkpad doesn't have mechanical latches for anything

Lenovo's website clearly shows mechanical latches on Thinkpads, e.g.:

http://www.lenovo.com/images/OneWebImages/SubSeries/gallery/...

> we are not talking about cheap plastic here

"Cheap plastic" is redundant.

> the stuff I find on my prosumer DSLR

I've been unimpressed with the "ruggedness" of my Pentax SLR and DSLR (the latter a K-5 II). I've been similarly unimpressed with the ruggedness of my father's Canon DSLRs.

Re:Apple Updates iMac by jms703 on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @11:54AM (#6438652)
plastic breaks
Re:Apple Updates iMac by bsimpson on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:08AM (#6437958)
The Chromebook Pixel has better hardware features than the MacBook line. (The touchscreen and LTE are both fantastic options.) But, pricewise, it's not far off from Apple's either.
Re:Apple Updates iMac by tomp on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:20AM (#6438026)
It has a really poor harddrive (32GB) - I realize it's not meant to be used offline, but the world is not yet fully online.

Also, what system is it running? For me, one of the main advantages of owning a mac is the OS - nice, slick, fast, *NIX (hence good for developers), without all the configuration hassle of Linux.

Re:Apple Updates iMac by riquito on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:32AM (#6438125)
Many developers (most? I suppose there are more developers on Linux than OSX) would find that "configuration hassle" a feature.
Re:Apple Updates iMac by mbreese on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @12:13PM (#6438786)
I flipped over to Macs from Linux desktops (laptops) because I was tired of reconfiguring things every 6 months or so. This was also ten years ago, but there is something very comforting in having a dedicated system that is well configured and tested that also has a good command prompt.
Re:Apple Updates iMac by nknighthb on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:46AM (#6438207)
What? Why would you suppose that? Developers don't like hassle any more than non-developers do. We're still people with work to get done.
Re:Apple Updates iMac by riquito on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @11:01AM (#6438301)
That's why I quoted "configuration hassle"
Re:Apple Updates iMac by nknighthb on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @11:57AM (#6438674)
Because you don't think they are? I do.

And you didn't say why you suppose more developers use Linux than OS X. My experience is the exact opposite.

Re:Apple Updates iMac by snowwrestler on Wednesday September 25, 2013 @10:56AM (#6444944)
Why? Configuration is a sysadmin or at best devops area. In my experience, most developers want to write software on a machine that gets out of their way.

They may need a particular flavor of Linux to test on, but those are typically server builds anyway, so not great for everyday computing. That's what solutions like Vagrant or cheap cloud servers are for.

Re:Apple Updates iMac by maaku on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:31AM (#6438116)
Interesting how you call OS X UNIX, as opposed to Linux.
Re:Apple Updates iMac by AlexeyBrin on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:46AM (#6438206)
OS X is more close to his UNIX heritage than Linux.
Re:Apple Updates iMac by bpaluzzi on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @11:40AM (#6438574)
If by "interesting", you mean "accurate"
Re:Apple Updates iMac by maaku on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @11:57AM (#6438676)
By "interesting" I mean a BSD veneer over a Mach core is only marginally better UNIX compatibility than Windows Services for UNIX (also POSIX certified). Did you know you can call Mach directly to override basically all the UNIX emulation, including access permissions?
Re:Apple Updates iMac by mikeash on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:49AM (#6438220)
Only one of them is POSIX certified. Hint: it's not Linux.
Re:Apple Updates iMac by axman6 on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @09:09PM (#6442027)
Not sure why that's interesting, OS X is a UNIX system and completely unrelated to Linux...
Re:Apple Updates iMac by melange on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:37AM (#6438149)
OSX is unix
Re:Apple Updates iMac by binarycrusader on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @12:11PM (#6438765)
Better hardware for the screen and LTE possibly, but the storage and memory options are inadequate for such an expensive system.

If they offered the same memory and storage options, it would be a lot more attractive.

Also, trackpad still sucks compared to Apple's.

And the price really should be lower given that you get less value out of the box.

Re:Apple Updates iMac by leephillips on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:21AM (#6438032)
These are nice, but I was under the impression that the weak spot was not quite enough ram given the large number of pixels, and the impossibility of upgrading the memory.

EDIT: Yes, I am referring to the Pixel here.

[deleted]
Re:Apple Updates iMac by Qerub on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @11:00AM (#6438295)
He is talking about the Chromebook Pixel. :)
Re:Apple Updates iMac by AlexeyBrin on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @11:22AM (#6438457)
+1 Thanks for the correction.
Re:Apple Updates iMac by post_break on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @11:00AM (#6438294)
What's the battery life like? Shit isn't it?