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Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by brudgers on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @09:52PM (#6131391)
Suppose Microsoft was a pharmaceutical company. Would this be news?

Merck had nearly $7 billion in operating losses last year on $48 billion in revenue. Microsoft had $22 billion in net revenue on $78 billion in income. The write down affected profits by less than 5%.

Surface is a research project - like Kin before it. Microsoft put several million Windows RT devices in the field in less than nine months. They will probably put another several million in the field in the next few.

That's a lot of stinking data, a lot cheaper than clinical development of a new new drug, and almost certain to be repaid over the long term because they've got Windows running on ARM and while there's the normal calls for Ballmer - Microsoft's second largest stockholder after his college buddy Gates - to fire himself, there are not widespread reports of technical failure from the field. On top of all that, every device they sell recoups part of their sunk cost in R&D.

Microsoft built a reference device for a new operating system. They have collected data to help their hardware partners develop more devices. They have collected data upon which to build a roadmap for Windows on ARM. Microsoft does not live and die quarter to quarter with Wall Street because the founder and first Business Manager still hold enough stock to call the shots.

They also realized well over a billion dollars of wealth apiece last year from Microsoft's operations. Both the numbers and the standard journalistic refrain that Microsoft is failing are pretty much the same as last year and the year before etc. It's just another news cycle.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by joe_the_user on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @10:03PM (#6131455)
Uh,

I don't think you have provided a persuasive argument (or any argument actually) for the contention that Microsoft's performance has a relation to the performance of a pharmaceutical company.

Drug development is hit-or-miss like software development. But that's about it.

Unlike drug development, software development often involves creating and maintaining a platform that will give you profits for years to come - or failing miserably and spectacularly. Microsoft's recent performance has been beyond abysmal and they've only only survived on the profits from their previous successes at building a platform - many people are still forced to use Windows. But everyone is looking around and the prospects look, uh, dim.

Sure, Microsoft doesn't live quarter to quarter. Which is why it's death is not yet finished but that's about it.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by sirkneeland on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @11:03PM (#6131670)
"it's [sic] death is not yet finished"

They made more money in the last 3 months than any tech company on earth save for Apple and you're writing as though they are an almost dead, twitching patient in a hospice.

For a group of smart people who at least consider themselves open-minded and objective, an astonishing amount of stupidly closed-minded things are said about Microsoft.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by maskedinvader on Wednesday July 31, 2013 @12:24AM (#6131876)
> For a group of smart people who at least consider themselves open-minded and objective, an astonishing amount of stupidly closed-minded things are said about Microsoft.

completely agree. My question to everybody who's out there with their knives and fork is this, so microsoft's surface tablets lost a lot of money and did not sell , you think companies like microsoft and google should quit trying to compete with apple for gaining tablet market share ? I believe the next iteration would fare much better and win 8.1 or maybe even win 9 could be when we begin to see microsoft gaining market share in mobile device sales.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by purephase on Wednesday July 31, 2013 @12:25AM (#6131881)
I'm not a MS fanboy by any stretch of the imagination but, and you have to realize this, MS already has that platform. They're so far ahead with said platform that all of this is just play money to them and they have ample time to invest heavily into R&D.

No other platform is even remotely ready for corporate environment. Not by a long shot. The billions invested in Windows software by every company on the planet means incredible vendor lock and the momentum required to move past that is so immense that is just not possible.

Any possibility of their "death" is ridiculous. This is just a slight bump in the road for them, they'll shift strategy and lather, rinse, repeat.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by TylerE on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @09:54PM (#6131409)
The troubling thing is that this has become rather a pattern for MS. What's the last MS product to actually do ok in the market? Windows 7? Even that felt like a bit of an anomaly at the time.
Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by kvb on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @10:39PM (#6131577)
Consumer market, or more generally speaking? They have lots of products doing very well in the market, as their billions of dollars per quarter in profit indicate. SharePoint, Dynamics, Visual Studio, ...
Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by purplelobster on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @11:26PM (#6131734)
Xbox360. Went from Sony completely dominating the market with PS2 (155 million devices sold), to Xbox360 and PS3 going head to head (78 vs 78 million). And they didn't do it by leveraging Windows, Office or forcing anybody.
Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by chii on Wednesday July 31, 2013 @12:53AM (#6131988)
and now look at what the xbone is going to turn into? PS4 is leading the mindshare, while microsoft attempted to use their "strong" position to leverage their device to becomes the center of the living room - which they find out is impossible because they don't actually have a compelling device.
Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by purplelobster on Wednesday July 31, 2013 @02:01AM (#6132135)
Can't more than agree on that. It's partly because there are no strong positions in an industry as volatile as consoles, so leveraging any perceived strong positions is probably a recipe for disaster.
Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by mikeash on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @10:31PM (#6131550)
The problem is that MS's profitability is based on products which, while still extremely useful and popular, are clearly obsolete in the long term, and they have shown no ability to move beyond them.

MS is in fine shape for a decade or two to come, if not more. But an MS that's still based on Office in 2030 will be irrelevant, no matter how profitable. And they can't milk that forever.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by sirkneeland on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @11:06PM (#6131680)
I'd say the same for an Apple still making iPods and iPhones in 2030.

17 years is such a distant time in the future as to be meaningless for short-term tech prognostication.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by mikeash on Wednesday July 31, 2013 @09:34AM (#6133510)
Yes, I'd say the same for Apple too. The difference is that I doubt Apple will still base their business on iPhones in 2030, while it seems probable that Microsoft will still be built around Office then.

17 years is indeed a distant time. But Microsoft's business 17 years ago was basically the same as it was today. Microsoft in 1996 was built around Office just like it is now. Meanwhile Apple's core business has changed two or three times in that same period.

MS has been stuck with the same major product for decades, and they show no signs of that changing.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by mzr on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @09:57PM (#6131422)
Two months is an awfully short research project. Guess with results like the Kin, they saw the writing on the wall. Microsoft should have told Verizon they were just testing the waters.
Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by MBCook on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @10:30PM (#6131540)
I seem to remember reading that, among other things, Verizon ended up pulling the rug from under Microsoft so the Kin would require $60/mo plans instead of the $10/line/mo charge that would have been more common for a teen's phone.

The Kin's desktop software was widely praised by reviewers as a great way to organize things. But when the pricing put it in iPhone range instead of feature phone range, it had no chance.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by throwaway1979 on Wednesday July 31, 2013 @08:02AM (#6133046)
Also, the kin was marketed well. I had a few total non-tech female friends ask me about it before it came out.
Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by wilg on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @09:54PM (#6131406)
Yeah, but they sure spent a lot of money and have a lot of data on a "reference device" that nobody wants to buy.
Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by ximeng on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @10:14PM (#6131494)
I have a surface pro and am pretty happy with it. I compared to a lot of rival tablets and products and it was basically the only one with the combination of features I want: supports extra screen, keyboard, runs Windows / Office apps so I don't need separate device for work, 1080p, touch screen (stylus a bonus). Battery life isn't a major issue for me as I'm plugged in most of the time and it lasts more than double my previous laptop unplugged. It's price competitive with laptops of a similar specification but more flexible.

Surface RT I don't consider competitive. But the Pro is the reference device for Windows 8 and nobody was doing it as well when I looked. They should have a market position there at least.

I think Windows 8 is a bit misguided in design - it's a step backwards not being able to resize apps on a laptop resolution screen, but using it as traditional windows works fine.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by sirkneeland on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @11:07PM (#6131682)
That's one of the perks of HAVING a lot of money.