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Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by rayiner on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @09:22PM (#6131273)
It's easy to blame marketing for Surface's failure, but I don't think that's the whole or even the most of it. If you read the reviews, nearly all mentioned or hinted at one thing: you should probably wait for the next iteration. And that's absolutely a product management failure, not a marketing failure. In tech, it is always the case that the next version of a product will be better, but it's a product design failure if the limitations of the device leave the user hankering for the upgrade from Day 1.

Re: Surface RT, Microsoft launched at the same price point as the iPad 4, but substantially later, with a last-generation CPU/GPU, non-Retina screen, and a buggy, slow, pre-release version of Office RT. That last point was inexcusable, a product management fuck up of Apple Maps proportions. The whole point of Surface RT was Office, and every review of the device said "Office RT is slow and buggy." The overwhelming feeling with Surface RT is that "I'm really going to be kicking myself in 6 months when they release the next version with flagship specs to match the flagship price."

Re: Surface Pro, Microsoft launched at a Macbook Air 11" price point, without the Air's great keyboard and with substantially weaker battery life (in Engadget's test, half the battery life of the comparably-sized Acer W700). The overwhelming feeling with Surface Pro was "I'm really going to be kicking myself when they release the next iteration with Haswell and usable battery life."

On top of all that, the segmentation was arbitrary and capricious. What's the difference between Surface RT and Surface Pro? It's an explanation that probably makes sense to a marketing guy somewhere trying to differentiate SKUs, but not one that I think resonated with consumers. Nexus 7 versus Nexus 10, iPad versus iPad Mini. That's how to do product differentiation--in a way that's immediately obvious to the consumer.

There was also some weird design choices. Why the extreme wide-format screen? Did anybody even try reading a Word document in portrait mode on the thing? I can understand the format for consumer-oriented tablets, but Surface was supposed to be a "real work" office machine! Why are there two ways to manage settings, one set in Metro and another set in the Desktop? Why do so many things require going into the Desktop anyway? Who thought it was even a good idea to expose the user to two completely different UI's in the same device?

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by phaus on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @09:38PM (#6131324)
>It's easy to blame marketing

Did you see the commercial? It actually is easy to blame marketing. The surface commercial was easily the worst commercial I've seen in my life. Wasn't entertaining, and it had absolutely nothing to do with the product. Even worse was the mini-documentary Microsoft released afterwards that bragged about how awesome every aspect of the commercial was.

That, as you mentioned, is only part of the problem. RT is a disaster. The person who conceived the idea should have known that it would never succeed, because never before in the history of the world has there ever been a product that the public so obviously didn't want.

No one ever said, "I want a Windows device, but make sure it isn't capable of running Windows software."

I've been a happy Windows user since 95, but I'm starting to lose faith in Microsoft.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by jmduke on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @09:42PM (#6131342)
Did you see the commercial? It actually is easy to blame marketing.

Products don't become bad just because they're advertised poorly.

The surface commercial was easily the worst commercial I've seen in my life

Either you watch a staggeringly small amount of television or this is hyperbole.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by anigbrowl on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @09:58PM (#6131427)
The only thing I learned from the commercial was that you could snap a magnetic type keyboard into it and that it came in different colors. Also, I needed to be wearing a suit or be a pissed-off looking schoolgirl to use this device.

The Dell commercials that are running now showing how it's better than an iPad are a model of clarity by comparison. I had absolutely no idea from the breakdancing commercials what the device was capable of.

I am not a big fan of TV but I have been a creative lead for a commercial series that won a Clio award, for what that's worth.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by jmduke on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @10:31PM (#6131549)
I'm not trying to defend the commercial, merely disagreeing that it's the worst ever.

I am not a big fan of TV but I have been a creative lead for a commercial series that won a Clio award, for what that's worth.

That's honestly really cool. I wouldn't have expected a lot of advertising people on HN.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by anigbrowl on Wednesday July 31, 2013 @12:17AM (#6131861)
Well it's not my main job, just came my way through working in film. But whether it's a commercial or movie or whatever, you can't help considering narratives from a technical standpoint.

And you're right, it's not the worst commercial ever. But considering teh staekes I thought it was pretty bad, and surprising considering how good MS marketing usually.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by phaus on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @10:01PM (#6131446)
>products don't become bad just because they're advertised poorly.

Agreed, but bad advertising can definitely stop a great product from selling. Good advertising, on the other hand, can help a bad product sell. Just look at how much revenue the original Blair Witch Project generated. Microsoft created a mediocre product with the Surface RT. In a market crowded with absolutely excellent devices, there is simply no room left for mediocrity.

Furthermore, Microsoft didn't only fail to illustrate the few redeeming qualities of the Surface to consumers, it didn't even begin to try. A commercial is supposed to be a form of communication between the company and its potential customers. A commercial that doesn't communicate the product's value to it's potential customers is a waste of time and money.

>Either you watch a staggeringly small amount of television, or this is hyperbole.

I admit, it's a little of both.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by Gormo on Wednesday July 31, 2013 @07:32AM (#6132944)
I've got to concur with him about the commercial.

It does nothing to explain what the product is, let alone why you'd want one. It doesn't offer any abstract brand associations for people to connect to Microsoft. It's just a short video of bunch of people dancing frenetically around a courtyard, and if you blink, you could miss that it's got anything to do with MS at all.

The only thing it seems to actually tell you about the product, if you're paying very close attention, is that there's a flip-up stand built into the back of it. They were using that stand clicking into place as the source of the percussion for the music track. That's it - if you pay close attention and consciously look for the product they're selling, you discover that it's a commercial for a plastic stand.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by ekianjo on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @09:54PM (#6131400)
Are you kidding? In an over-crowded market for computing devices, products sell bad precisely because of bad marketing. If you can't differentiate, you are as good as dead.
Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by yulaow on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @09:55PM (#6131410)
Let's talk about office

MS was like "Whoa we are giving you the tablet with office 'cause you ever dreamed a tablet with office and you totally hate a tablet without office". Ballmer almost said something totally equal to it

Problem is, in the last year, market has showed that no one need a tablet with office and that office is not more a killer feature, mainly for the common users market (it has still sense in corporation market).

So they pushed and pushed on this feature when it was practically useless to convince anyone to buy an rt. This is another reason to blame failure ALSO on the marketing part of MS.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by jonaford on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @11:31PM (#6131750)
A tablet with office and a web browser was a great idea for corporates...and then they prevented RT from joining domains.
Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by venomsnake on Wednesday July 31, 2013 @02:34AM (#6132203)
Or running recompiled version of any LOB internal apps. They should have just made it proper windows and it could have been a hit.
Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by jonaford on Sunday August 04, 2013 @10:53PM (#6158161)
Are you thinking of something different to surface pro?
Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by lostlogin on Wednesday July 31, 2013 @02:19AM (#6132170)
A fuck up of Apple Maps proportions. I disagree. Maps is so far down the list of things that are critical to Apple, but Office is either number 1 or 2 for Microsoft. And how many products does Microsoft make money on? Apple doesnt make much from Maps.
Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by ximeng on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @10:21PM (#6131513)
Windows 8 is a bit weird in the split between metro and desktop, and I feel these need to merge in the future. I hardly use metro apps because they don't work nicely with other apps, e.g. can't shift from one screen to another, resizing is difficult.

Surface RT I can't really see a market for. But Surface Pro is perfectly OK, competitive with laptops, some advantages (touch screen and stylus are nice), good screen with support for second screen, easy switch between laptop and tablet mode, some disadvantages but nothing too bad - keyboard just OK, battery just OK, only one USB port on the machine, etc. All in all next version will be nicer I'm sure, but I have one and I'm pretty happy with it and am not too worried about getting the next iteration - it works fine for me as is.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by barista on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @09:35PM (#6131309)
regarding comparison with iPad, the CPU GPU combination does not matter because Surface was/is still plenty fast with the hardware it has. Agree on the screen and Office though. Although office was updated a month or two after the release and fixed the performance issues in time. I wouldn't necessarily attribute the problems to that. Marketing seems to have come around and have started chaning the message and attacking the iPad more directly in adverts like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86JMcy5OqZA and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE7AQY5Xk9w

plus the reduced price should help make it attractive. It's one very functional device though. Just today I read an article of how it was perfect for a student. Will update with a link if I find it.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by rayiner on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @09:46PM (#6131364)
> the CPU GPU combination does not matter because Surface was/is still plenty fast with the hardware it has.

It really isn't. Nearly every review mentioned that it felt a little slow. Anand Tech mentioned it was "almost" as smooth as an iPad, but felt slower starting apps. Tech Radar said its graphics performance was "sluggish." Ars mentioned apps starting slower than they would like. I had a Surface RT for several weeks, and that was exactly my impression: it felt just a step slower than my wife's iPad, and that wasn't an admirable quality in a $500+$100 tablet. If Surface RT had started at $350, people would have perceived it as an acceptable compromise.

> Although office was updated a month or two after the release and fixed the performance issues in time.

It doesn't matter what happens "a month or two" after all the reviews are written. Nobody who wasn't hoping for the Surface RT to succeed bothered to go back a couple of months later to check for updates.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by MBCook on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @10:26PM (#6131534)
> Agree on the screen and Office though. Although office was updated a month or two after the release and fixed the performance issues in time.

What I find so odd about the RT was that the desktop only existed for two reasons: Office and settings. If it wasn't for Office they could have fixed the settings that were missing in the Metro interface and the thing wouldn't have felt slightly Jekyll & Hyde. Instead it looked more like the Office team didn't believe in the product (or wasn't given enough time) and it seemed half-assed.

I have a friend who has a 64gb RT and loves it, but he bought it for $50 after the original owner wanted to get rid of it. I doubt he would have paid the $450 for it though.

Re:Microsoft's Surface sales figures are in, and they're hid... by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday July 30, 2013 @09:44PM (#6131353)
I find Surface RT to have lots of lag, especially when opening up apps. It doesn't feel as fast as an iPad. I think the GPU is adequate, especially since the RT screen is very low resolution compared to an iPad 3.