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Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by droopyEyelids on Saturday July 13, 2013 @05:48PM (#6038917)
So if I read that correctly, the same image file was available to both the defense and the prosecution.

When Kruidbos' discovery process found information that the defense hadn't found, he was concerned that he should turn it over to them.

Then he sought out a lawyer to parlay with the lawyers involved in the case, avoiding his office's chain of command.

Well, I think we'd need a lawyer to say what should have happened here-- Does anyone know whether the state is responsible for turning over everything they pull out of an image? Or is it enough to provide the image to the defense?

Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by nugget on Saturday July 13, 2013 @06:05PM (#6038980)
I watched the entire testimony on YouTube and from what I can tell, it boils down to this:

- both sides had an extremely hard to parse, near unintelligible raw source file (data dump from the phone)

- the prosecutor's office had purchased a software package that could turn this raw source file into a much more easily readable report

- the prosecutor's office didn't think that the defense would pay the several thousands of dollars for the same software, in order to generate the same report

- the prosecutor's office provided only the raw source file and declined to provide any of the auto-generated reports which were meant to extract data from, organize and allow for easier analysis of that source file

- the IT guy knew this and was afraid that in the future, someone could claim he acted in negligence

- unbeknownst to the IT guy, the defense had indeed purchased other 3rd party software and successfully analyzed the entire source file

- the prosecutor hinted that the IT guy's testimony is him getting even for being the (unconfirmed) target of a leak investigation earlier in 2012

So does the prosecutor need to turn over the software-generated report to the defense? Or only the raw source files which powered the software? That's the question and I am unqualified to answer. But if it's the former and not the latter then the prosecutor messed up and was caught red handed.

Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by lawnchair_larry on Saturday July 13, 2013 @06:19PM (#6039017)
Did they say which software was used? Was it EnCase? (Edit: Turns out it was cellbrite. They likely had EnCase for general forensics, at $3k, and cellbrite is another $8k, for phone-specific forensics).

I find it a little disturbing that the choice of software, and particularly the cost of it, can mean the difference between going to prison or not.

In this case, the undiscovered files included someone with a "black hand" holding a gun, text messages related to acquiring a gun, and some kind of marijuana product. None of those are relevant to the case, but do trigger prejudice or emotional responses, so it's probably good that they were left out.

In another case, those might be pictures of a murder victim or some other critical evidence (of either guilt or innocence). It seems pretty unfair that accused with a public defender doesn't generally have access to this.

Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by sejje on Saturday July 13, 2013 @08:25PM (#6039363)
I think it's relevant given how much time the prosecution devoted to painting Trayvon as a child who was merely buying candy and returning from his childish errand back home, when everything occurred.

If prosecutors want to paint a personal portrait of someone for the sympathy of the jurors, stuff like this should absolutely be included by the defense. In fact, I'd say it's their legal obligation to do everything in their power to have it presented.

Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by king_jester on Saturday July 13, 2013 @09:25PM (#6039504)
> I think it's relevant given how much time the prosecution devoted to painting Trayvon as a child who was merely buying candy and returning from his childish errand back home, when everything occurred.

I don't know what media you saw when this case started, but Travyon was described as a young adult, not a young child. Further he was merely buying candy and going home when he was stalked by Zimmerman, doing nothing that should trigger suspicion or aggression.

> If prosecutors want to paint a personal portrait of someone for the sympathy of the jurors, stuff like this should absolutely be included by the defense.

The extra photos from the cell phone are entirely irrelevant to the facts of the case and they should not be presented to the court as though they were. The defense wanted to include those photos to paint a portrait of a scary black man to a group of white women in the jurors box.

Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by sejje on Sunday July 14, 2013 @10:50AM (#6040998)
I didn't see any media, I'm talking about the prosecution's presentation of the case during the trial. He was presented as a 17-year-old child (never once heard "young adult" in ~two weeks of watching).

"Stalked" is pretty aggressive language, and according to GZ, his initial suspicion was just related to him not knowing who this person was (he knew most of the residents) walking around at night, in the dark, in the rain, near the houses. I think that's a pretty reasonable case for someone to feel suspicious.

And to re-iterate, when prosecutors are trying to paint a portrait of childish innocence, I think it's perfectly acceptable to introduce evidence to the contrary. They're irrelevant if we don't try to elicit sympathy from the jury, but that's not how the prosecution handled things.

Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by smsm42 on Sunday July 14, 2013 @05:47PM (#6042385)
The prosecutors specifically argued that child abuse happened in this case[1]:

Prosecutor Richard Mantei argued that instructions for third-degree murder should be included on the premise that Zimmerman committed child abuse when he fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin because Martin was underage.

[1] http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2013/07/11/judge-rules-jury-can-co...

Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by shawndumas on Saturday July 13, 2013 @09:50PM (#6039547)
Trayvon had mild fatty metamorphosis of the liver. he was buying the ingredients for watermelon drank (aka lean)
Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by mattstreet on Sunday July 14, 2013 @01:18AM (#6040042)
Perfect example of money equaling justice. A multi million wouldn't worry about the cost of any software that might provide any useful evidence.
Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by mpyne on Saturday July 13, 2013 @06:01PM (#6038970)
IANAL but it seems to me the interests of justice would require informing both the prosecution and defense attorneys if a state agency finds evidence of any sort that would be relevant to a given case.

Jumping the chain of command is never a good idea. At least send your boss an email (and BCC your gmail) to prove that you tried to go through official channels.

Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by shawndumas on Saturday July 13, 2013 @06:11PM (#6038995)
FTA: As for why he did not approach Corey about his concerns in the Martin case, Kruidbos said Corey has a close relationship with de la Rionda and “any attempt by me to go to them and say I think something wrong has happened would not have been taken seriously, and then ultimately held against me.”

“I consulted an attorney, which is my right,” he said. “I had concerns about what I had seen at work, and this was just how it ended up playing out.”

Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by mpyne on Saturday July 13, 2013 @06:42PM (#6039078)
Yes, it ended up playing out that an employee saw an potential instance of misconduct and did not try to correct it within the organization. By informing his boss (or their boss, etc. on up the line) he could have demonstrated in addition that the boss is corrupt and should be removed from duty.

Now because of due process (there's no actual evidence that his boss wouldn't have actually done the right thing, the employee just assumed) the boss will still have her job and be in position to act contrary to the interests of justice in the future.

And at this point his management has a reason to remove him from the job. Maybe he can fight it as a wrongful termination, but for now he's out of a job. I hope he gets his job back, but saying that your boss is corrupt is reason enough to give your boss enough rope to hang themselves IMHO.

Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by anigbrowl on Saturday July 13, 2013 @07:20PM (#6039188)
It's very hard to judge this situation, given that the case it relates to is so divisive. For people who believe George Zimmerman, this guy's actions seem heroic. For people who think Trayvon Martin was murdered, this will seem like an effort to taint the prosecution case.
Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by sejje on Saturday July 13, 2013 @08:29PM (#6039377)
I think that the crowd here on this site perhaps has a better ability than most to analyze facts. I have an opinion on the GZ case, but I think I can process this incident independently.
Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by anigbrowl on Saturday July 13, 2013 @07:15PM (#6039164)
would not have been taken seriously

A specious argument. If someone raised concerns that were then ignored, or had had past experience of that kind, it would be entirely appropriate to consult an attorney. On the other hand, the notion that it would have been held against him as an employee of the state is (I think, IANAL) BS. Raising the issue with his supervisors would have made it their problem; it's attorneys who bear the responsibility for discovery compliance, not the lab staff who do the actual forensic work.

Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by AlexFinks on Saturday July 13, 2013 @11:12PM (#6039786)
I think it's better to privately consult an attorney on anything you think is substantially suspicious to your superiors than to go through the chain of the command.

Exposing your dangerous intentions to report potentially illegal behavior too early could mean inadequate time to prepare for repercussions.

Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by mpyne on Sunday July 14, 2013 @12:30AM (#6039960)
Certainly you could additionally consult an attorney, but that's still no excuse for leaving the system broken as-is. Did he plan on just leaking evidence all the time in the future and hoping that he doesn't accidentally violate a judge's legal order in the process?
Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by ericcumbee on Saturday July 13, 2013 @05:55PM (#6038944)
the defense is entitled to all forensic reports and findings of lab work etc. which is what this would fall under.
Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by droopyEyelids on Saturday July 13, 2013 @06:00PM (#6038966)
So it seems he was fired for hiring his own lawyer and contacting people involved with the case instead of talking to his boss?
Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by shawndumas on Saturday July 13, 2013 @06:06PM (#6038983)
FTA: "Kruidbos said he became concerned that lead prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda might not have turned over Kruidbos’ report to defense attorneys. ... [his lawyer] then contacted one of Zimmerman’s attorneys and learned the defense had not received the report generated by Kruidbos.

He said he asked [his lawyer] for legal advice because he was concerned he could face “legal exposure” if the cellphone report wasn’t turned over to the defense before the trial started.

He said he did not feel comfortable posing that question to anyone within the office because the State Attorney’s Office had just conducted an in-house probe of whether someone was leaking personnel information."

Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by tsotha on Saturday July 13, 2013 @06:40PM (#6039069)
Bernia de la Rionda is the one who should be fired. Along with the judge.
Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by sejje on Saturday July 13, 2013 @08:31PM (#6039381)
How does this fall to the judge? (I'm genuinely curious, I have no idea what her role or duties were regarding this.)
Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by tsotha on Sunday July 14, 2013 @02:12PM (#6041604)
Oh, not for this particular instance. Just that she has ruled in such a way that Zimmerman is at more of a disadvantage than he should have been as a defendant.
Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by andrewcooke on Saturday July 13, 2013 @06:22PM (#6039021)
no, he was fired for making the state attorney look bad.
Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by malandrew on Saturday July 13, 2013 @08:06PM (#6039300)
... as well he should be for not sharing information that should be shared with the defense.

Making someone look bad when it is deserved and when it is not deserved are two very different circumstances.

I would hope that any attorney that acts without ethics should be investigated and removed. If the system is not good enough to self-police itself, then we have a problem.

Could he have instead gone to the state bar to raise his concerns? Is there an equivalent of a Dept of Internal Affairs that investigates prosecutorial misconduct?

Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by andrewcooke on Saturday July 13, 2013 @08:24PM (#6039355)
wut? i think one of us has misunderstood the article. sorry if it's me.
Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by malandrew on Saturday July 13, 2013 @08:27PM (#6039372)
Huh? Now I'm confused. :)
Re:State Attorney fires IT director who raised concerns in T... by hristov on Saturday July 13, 2013 @07:12PM (#6039158)
I don't think this is quite correct. The article says "The defense did receive the source file from the cellphone and used its own experts to extract data."

So it is very possible, even likely that the defense obtained the same data themselves.