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Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by nugget on Wednesday July 03, 2013 @07:02PM (#5988047)
As Federal employees, the men and women who work at the NSA swear an oath which dates back to 1884:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God."

Rather than instantly pass the buck about the scope, context and impact of their domestic surveillance work, perhaps the recruiters on this clip should re-read this oath and think about what it really means; what their responsibilities are to the citizens of the United States; and what kind of country they want their children and their children's children to live in.

Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by ajuc on Wednesday July 03, 2013 @07:20PM (#5988152)
Even atheists must do the part with God?
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by mjn on Wednesday July 03, 2013 @07:31PM (#5988190)
As far as I know, it may usually (always?) be omitted. Oddly enough, it didn't require a Supreme Court decision, because the precedent was set with the first such oath: the Judiciary Act of 1789 was the first to specify a legal oath ending with "so help me God", and it at the same time explicitly included an opt-out clause, after which that has been accepted practice.

See Sec. 7 here: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&fileName=00...

The fact that this accommodates atheists, however, is a bit of a coincidence: such opt-out clauses were initially included because Quakers objected to swearing oaths to God.

Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by calebhc on Wednesday July 03, 2013 @08:00PM (#5988278)
"So help me God" should be omitted since it doesn't even make any coherent sense. Might as well say "So help me snorkleflurp".

Edit: The reason I say that phrase doesn't make any sense is because "God" has so many inconsistent, incoherent definitions that it seems nonsensical to request help from it. No idea what "God" even is.

Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by tzs on Wednesday July 03, 2013 @08:20PM (#5988370)
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by gcb0 on Thursday July 04, 2013 @01:28AM (#5989273)
that's a recursive argument.
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by dspillett on Thursday July 04, 2013 @04:24AM (#5989694)
Welcome to human nature.

It is amazing how many of our daily behaviours are due in part to circular reasoning, and not just those attributed to religious beliefs.

Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by VMG on Thursday July 04, 2013 @03:31AM (#5989572)
It just signals other people in his social sphere that they can question his religiosity of he fails to uphold his oath, nothing more.
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by colanderman on Wednesday July 03, 2013 @07:32PM (#5988191)
I'd be surprised if the three-letter agencies don't screen out atheists. They screen in Mormons [1].

[1] http://www.businessinsider.com/11-surprising-things-you-didn...

Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by rhizome on Wednesday July 03, 2013 @07:48PM (#5988241)
Then again, "Business Insider," and a number-of-things article.
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by colanderman on Wednesday July 03, 2013 @08:04PM (#5988293)
Sorry, I just picked the first result on Google. I learned this tidbit from a previous posting on HN; apparently the CIA (or NSA?) recruits heavily from Brigham Young University.
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by pyre on Thursday July 04, 2013 @03:46AM (#5989604)
It was the CIA.

There is the possibility that they trend towards Mormons due to some belief/statistic that they are more likely to respect authority, or unquestioningly follow orders.

On the other hand, Mormons do a lot of missionary work where they learn the local language, in addition to customs, etc. This is also something extremely valuable to intelligence organizations.

Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by phaus on Thursday July 04, 2013 @06:45PM (#5992744)
There's a reserve/guard unit (can't remember which) in Utah that is comprised largely of Mormons who became linguists for the Army. Supposedly, it's the most talented and diverse group of linguists ever assembled, and they have people who speak languages that no other person in the Western world knows.
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by rhizome on Wednesday July 03, 2013 @09:03PM (#5988566)
And also not-so-Mormon RPI.
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by angersock on Wednesday July 03, 2013 @10:52PM (#5988918)
Convenient for the folks in Provo, I suppose.
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by charonn0 on Wednesday July 03, 2013 @08:15PM (#5988347)
No. The Constitution prohibits religious tests as a condition of office, and allows either an oath ("so help me god") or an affirmation[1] to be used.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmation_in_law

Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by phaus on Wednesday July 03, 2013 @08:17PM (#5988358)
When I joined the military, I was given the option to take the pledge without a reference to God. I suspect the same option is given to people in any government organization.
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by gcb0 on Thursday July 04, 2013 @01:30AM (#5989276)
but try to say So help me [allah|budah|spagetti] to see what happens.

no religion is for the soul. it's all about control.

Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by charonn0 on Thursday July 04, 2013 @01:41AM (#5989300)

    but try to say So help me [allah|budah|spagetti] to see what happens.
What would happen? (serious question)
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by phaus on Thursday July 04, 2013 @06:42PM (#5992731)
In almost all cases, your religious preference would be respected, and no one would give a shit. Unless of course you actually did mention the Flying Spaghetti Monster, because this would be an obvious attempt to demean another person's religious beliefs.

Yes, Christians are in the majority in the military, but they are also required by regulation and therefore law to treat everyone with respect. There are Muslims, Jews, Scientologists, Wiccans, Satanists, Atheists, Mormons, Mennonites, Taoists, Bhuddists, Harri Krishnas, Jedis, and many more in the United States military. I've even had a friend who claimed to observe traditional Norse beliefs.

Every official event that I've been to has had some sort of Christian benediction, which is technically unethical, but at the same time, if it brings comfort to the overwhelming majority of my friends who may soon be risking their lives in combat, isn't it more damaging to attempt to deprive them of it?

Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by charonn0 on Friday July 05, 2013 @02:34AM (#5993671)

    Unless of course you actually did mention the Flying Spaghetti Monster, 
    because this would be an obvious attempt to demean another person's 
    religious beliefs.
Do you hear the hypocrisy, the conceit? Who gets to decide which fairy tales are blasphemous? Whose moral outrage is justified when others dare to disagree with their religious beliefs?
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by pg on Friday July 05, 2013 @02:52AM (#5993702)
Please stop.
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by nnq on Thursday July 04, 2013 @04:09AM (#5989655)
...just imagined how anti-buddhist would be for a buddhist to say "so help me buddha!" and can't stop laughing :)
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by pfortuny on Thursday July 04, 2013 @02:57AM (#5989499)
Well, there are some millions of people who disagree with you. I include myself in them.

Not that it matters, I just wanted to state the contrary.

"Contrarywise, said Tweedledee"

Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by Mordor on Thursday July 04, 2013 @04:05AM (#5989647)
Perhaps they should all be fired.
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by ekianjo on Thursday July 04, 2013 @04:55AM (#5989781)
Perhaps they don't know what the Constitution means.
Re:Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio] by sbank on Thursday July 04, 2013 @05:09AM (#5989823)
Perhaps they should have to solemnly swear to read it as well.