Re:The Interlisp Programming Environment (1981) [pdf]
by gruseom on Sunday June 30, 2013 @01:21PM
(#5966399)
Interlisp was the so-called "west coast" Lisp that emphasized an interactive programming environment and in retrospect looks more like a hybrid between Smalltalk and Lisp than modern Lisp implementations. It was developed at PARC for a while. I don't know if there was cross-pollination between Interlisp and Smalltalk or if the similarity was a zeitgeist thing.
This article talks about the design values of the system and communicates the flavour of what a Smalltalkish Lisp would have been like.
As someone who's only read about this, I'd be interested in hearing from people who actually used it.
Re:The Interlisp Programming Environment (1981) [pdf]
by fractallyte on Sunday June 30, 2013 @03:17PM
(#5966815)
It's very much like an early version of Smalltalk: monochrome, with an early-80s style GUI. There's a popup main menu with a surprising number of options, plus several editors, debugging tools, and a Smalltalk-like 'Transcript' window (for output). The system is image-based, so the running image could be stopped and restarted, even from a different machine.
More intriguingly - and again, analogous to Smalltalk - Interlisp is more than just another Lisp dialect: it's a complete operating system running atop a Lisp VM, with Lisp as the system language, from top to bottom. Awesome!
By today's standards, it's clunky (as one would expect), but if development had continued, I suspect the comparison to Symbolics Genera would be the analog of comparing a GUI desktop environment to a console-based one. Considering the richness of modern environments (have you seen Pharo or Squeak?), that could've been a seriously cool Lisp development platform...
Incidentally, ParEdit is based on Interlisp's SEdit (in Taylor Campbell's words, 'a real structure editor, not a cheesy imitation like paredit').
Re:The Interlisp Programming Environment (1981) [pdf]
by fractallyte on Monday July 01, 2013 @07:39AM
(#5969942)
Yes, you're right - I was mistaken (I was thinking of Slime/Emacs). Genera had a proper hierarchical window system - screenshots just don't do it justice!
Re:The Interlisp Programming Environment (1981) [pdf]
by bobbane on Monday July 01, 2013 @12:01AM
(#5968560)
From 1986-88, I worked for Xerox AI Systems, the group that commercialized Interlisp-D. We(my personal contribution was relatively small) added Common Lisp to the system, along with SEdit, a friendlier-than-DEdit structure editor.
Interlisp-D went against the grain of most other Lisp implementations at the time:
* Byte-coded implementation interpreted in micro-code, for very compact compiled code (vs. RISC machines' larger, faster code)
* Tuned for interactive performance (vs. tuned for Gabriel benchmark performance)
* Managed code and structure editing (vs. text files and emacs)
In late 1988, Xerox tried to spin the Lisp/AI business out into a separate company named enVos. Envos crashed almost immediately:
Re:The Interlisp Programming Environment (1981) [pdf]
by lispm on Sunday June 30, 2013 @03:15PM
(#5966809)
Much of that is actually a decade or more older. It was then called BBN Lisp. The BBN team then went to Xerox PARC. There they also moved this Lisp onto the new personal workstations.
Re:The Interlisp Programming Environment (1981) [pdf]
by mark_l_watson on Sunday June 30, 2013 @11:02PM
(#5968392)
I got a Xerox 1108 Lisp Machine running Interlisp-D in 1982 and enjoyed it greatly. It had knowledge of code like modern IDEs making code inspection and refactoring easier. Back then, it was like magic.
Now however, I prefer IntelliJ for Clojure and Java, and the similar IDE RubyMine for Ruby development. I think very good IDEs are a spiritual successor to the wonderful programming environment if my 1108.
Re:The Interlisp Programming Environment (1981) [pdf]
by kps on Sunday June 30, 2013 @01:39PM
(#5966476)
Nice article. I have a Xerox 6085 "Daybreak" workstation that runs Interlisp.
An emulator exists, that runs on various *nix systems. It used to be available for noncommercial use under here http://www2.parc.com/isl/groups/nltt/medley/ but the links seem dead.
This article talks about the design values of the system and communicates the flavour of what a Smalltalkish Lisp would have been like.
As someone who's only read about this, I'd be interested in hearing from people who actually used it.
More intriguingly - and again, analogous to Smalltalk - Interlisp is more than just another Lisp dialect: it's a complete operating system running atop a Lisp VM, with Lisp as the system language, from top to bottom. Awesome!
By today's standards, it's clunky (as one would expect), but if development had continued, I suspect the comparison to Symbolics Genera would be the analog of comparing a GUI desktop environment to a console-based one. Considering the richness of modern environments (have you seen Pharo or Squeak?), that could've been a seriously cool Lisp development platform...
Incidentally, ParEdit is based on Interlisp's SEdit (in Taylor Campbell's words, 'a real structure editor, not a cheesy imitation like paredit').
Huh? The MIT-class Lisp Machines also had GUIs from the beginning. Clunky by modern standards, as you say, but definitely graphical.
Maybe I just don't get what analogy you're trying to draw.
Interlisp-D went against the grain of most other Lisp implementations at the time:
* Byte-coded implementation interpreted in micro-code, for very compact compiled code (vs. RISC machines' larger, faster code)
* Tuned for interactive performance (vs. tuned for Gabriel benchmark performance)
* Managed code and structure editing (vs. text files and emacs)
In late 1988, Xerox tried to spin the Lisp/AI business out into a separate company named enVos. Envos crashed almost immediately:
http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/10590/...
Medley, the last release from enVos, hung on as a commercial product from Venue:
http://top2bottom.net/medley.html
http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/bbnlisp
This gives the impression what they had in 1971:
http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/bbnlisp/Te...
Now however, I prefer IntelliJ for Clojure and Java, and the similar IDE RubyMine for Ruby development. I think very good IDEs are a spiritual successor to the wonderful programming environment if my 1108.
An emulator exists, that runs on various *nix systems. It used to be available for noncommercial use under here http://www2.parc.com/isl/groups/nltt/medley/ but the links seem dead.