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Re:America’s Shameful Human Rights Record (2012) by dmix on Monday June 24, 2013 @11:14AM (#5933430)
The symbolism of American freedom is entirely about a limited government who can't oppress their people. That's what the Founding Fathers talked about.

Slavery was brought into place 2 centuries before the Founding Fathers. And they were fundamental in bringing it down.

> One of the reasons given by Thomas Jefferson for the separation from Great Britain was a desire to rid America of the evil of slavery imposed on them by the British.

For comparison, the Nazi's existed less than 1 century from today, so does modern Germany face the same criticism?

Re:America’s Shameful Human Rights Record (2012) by Cowen on Monday June 24, 2013 @01:07PM (#5934222)
> One of the reasons given by Thomas Jefferson for the separation from Great Britain was a desire to rid America of the evil of slavery imposed on them by the British.

That is blatantly false.

Jefferson wrote several times about possibly supporting gradual emancipation if it included deportation of former slaves, but his actions speak much louder than his words.

Not only did he refuse to support actual plans for gradual emancipation several times in his career, but Jefferson owned hundreds of slaves in his lifetime, even bringing them with him while he lived in France and to the White House during his presidency (which truthfully was not uncommon for presidents of the time). Jefferson viewed slavery as part of the Southern way of life.

At the time of his death, he had freed a grand total of about 7 slaves, but 130 slaves were sold from Monticello after his death. Compare that to other wealthy slaveowners like George Washington, who freed all of their slaves upon their death.

Here's Jefferson, writing on freed African-Americans:

> "For men probably of any color, but of this color we know, brought from their infancy without necessity for thought or forecast, are by their habits rendered as incapable as children of taking care of themselves, and are extinguished promptly wherever industry is necessary for raising young. In the mean time they are pests in society by their idleness, and the depredations to which this leads them." [1]

[1] http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=JefLett....

Re:America’s Shameful Human Rights Record (2012) by Anechoic on Monday June 24, 2013 @11:30AM (#5933531)
One of the reasons given by Thomas Jefferson for the separation from Great Britain was a desire to rid America of the evil of slavery imposed on them by the British.

And yet Great Britain managed to abolish slavery three decades before it was abolished in the US.

Re:America’s Shameful Human Rights Record (2012) by philwelch on Monday June 24, 2013 @02:55PM (#5934899)
Why bother subjugating people overseas and taking them to your home country when you can conquer entire subcontinents and subjugate them right in their homelands?
Re:America’s Shameful Human Rights Record (2012) by gohrt on Monday June 24, 2013 @12:02PM (#5933758)
1. 30 years as basically 0 on a historical time scale. In the 19th Century, Sending a letter from Europe to the US took weeks.

2. The US is comprised many states, and Federal power was weaker than. Some states banned slavery earlier.

3. Slavery was hugely economically impactful in North America. Once USA left the British Empire, slavery became less relevant, and pushing for worldwide abolishing of slavery may even have been economically strategic against USA competition.

Re:America’s Shameful Human Rights Record (2012) by angersock on Monday June 24, 2013 @11:54AM (#5933696)
And they did such a wonderful job with the home-bred hordes in South Asia and the Middle East!

EDIT: For the curious, am referencing "Arithmetic on the Frontier" by Kipling ( http://www.gutenberg.org/files/7846/7846-h/7846-h.htm#link2H... ).

Re:America’s Shameful Human Rights Record (2012) by cpursley on Monday June 24, 2013 @11:37AM (#5933586)
Yep. And most other countries - with little bloodshed.
Re:America’s Shameful Human Rights Record (2012) by ctdonath on Monday June 24, 2013 @01:18PM (#5934298)
Given sufficient time, would have gone away here too without a fight. Alas, slavery was just one factor in a confluence of issues leading to a bloody civil war. Popular historical depictions aside, the US Civil War wasn't just about slavery.
Re:America’s Shameful Human Rights Record (2012) by Avshalom on Monday June 24, 2013 @01:35PM (#5934418)
"Popular historical depictions" including such post hoc media portrayals as letters of secession stating "this is totally just about slavery"
Re:America’s Shameful Human Rights Record (2012) by scarmig on Monday June 24, 2013 @01:46PM (#5934482)
South Carolina Declaration of Secession [1]:

The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D. 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue...

The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation...

We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection...

[1] http://www.civil-war.net/pages/southcarolina_declaration.asp

Re:America’s Shameful Human Rights Record (2012) by pekk on Monday June 24, 2013 @02:27PM (#5934732)
Today it is totally inappropriate and stupid to blast a German for the Nazis, regardless of your nationality. (Unless the individual is a Nazi, but that's not the same thing).

Of course, it is very accepted to blast every American for slavery today, so that is just sort of an international double standard.

Re:America’s Shameful Human Rights Record (2012) by leot on Monday June 24, 2013 @04:04PM (#5935311)
In school, Germans are taken on field trips to the concentration and death camps that their countrymen set up. As a consequence, Germans are acutely aware of the horribleness of their heritage.

Do you believe Americans, as a group, are similarly educated or aware?

Re:America’s Shameful Human Rights Record (2012) by rdouble on Monday June 24, 2013 @05:23PM (#5935771)
Yeah, there's all sorts of reminders of civil rights abuses in secondary school history classes. That said, American culture isn't as heavy on shame as German culture is. It's presented more like, here's some crappy stuff that happened in the past, isn't it great you live in the present?
Re:America’s Shameful Human Rights Record (2012) by mickeyr on Monday June 24, 2013 @05:16PM (#5935741)
My classes were taken to plantations for field trips. Are germans also taught about the Herero & Namaqua genocide? If not, should we start holding that against them as well?
Re:America’s Shameful Human Rights Record (2012) by cpursley on Monday June 24, 2013 @11:19AM (#5933461)
I agree. See my point below. What I'm talking about is understanding the history of the US to provide context in making decisions about what's happening now. Like the NSA's unconstitutional wiretapping of citizens and Syria.