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Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by DanielBMarkham on Saturday June 15, 2013 @10:34AM (#5885109)
This is an older article. One of the key takeaways is that Congress in 2008 gave the IRS the capability to dive into your personal affairs online in ways that even the justice department can't (without a warrant). They only need to view you as somebody of interest.

Better still, the exact nature of all this -- wait for it -- is a secret.

The long-term trend here is pretty clear. Congress has the Big Data hammer out, and it's not afraid to use it on whatever political cause of the week makes them upset. NSA was first, because terrorism was so bad. But dang it, tax cheats are pretty bad too!

There's no slippery slope argument that needs to be made. We're already sliding down it. Just standby for the next travesty. Don't worry, the wait won't be long. Maybe a year or two.

The American people remain amazingly ignorant and/or apathetic, though. One wonders how many wake-up calls it will take.

ADD: The very interesting question here is this: since the IRS is authorized to go after emails and social chats without a warrant, how are the big service providers going to report this? Even if Google shows its thousands of NSLs, this type of activity wouldn't be covered by them. Some more info here: http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/mutual-funds/...

Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by glurgh on Saturday June 15, 2013 @11:23AM (#5885221)
Just standby for the next travesty.

What's the specific travesty here? The IRS already looks at and analyzes your private financial data both as reported by you and others and this is generally considered acceptable and a necessary part of them doing their job. So say now they noticed you reported $20k in gross annual income but are buying Ferraris on eBay. It seems pretty reasonable to assume, from that piece of public data that you might be mis-stating your taxable income.

Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by ams6110 on Saturday June 15, 2013 @01:37PM (#5885694)
If congress would simplify the tax code, it would be both harder to cheat and vastly easier for the honest to pay their taxes. And the IRS wouldn't need to snoop into everyone's life.
Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by tptacek on Saturday June 15, 2013 @05:27PM (#5886332)
No simplified tax code proposal I've read would eliminate the problem of people doing cash transactions under the table, or "loaning" themselves a house and treating that as a business asset.
Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by theflyingkiwi42 on Saturday June 15, 2013 @05:37PM (#5886359)
The Fair Tax would take care of most of that. Any transaction with a business would have sales tax. There are no write offs, so the business asset would not fly, neither would be buying Ferraris.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=HowFairTaxWo...

Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by thaumaturgy on Saturday June 15, 2013 @09:38PM (#5887028)
Every time I've looked at the Fair Tax proposal, I've been underwhelmed and thought the name was the same sort of anti-nomer as the Patriot Act. But maybe you can change my mind.

It's a tax on buying. Think about that for a moment. Fair Tax proponents claim that the current tax system causes disincentives for things like exports and U.S. manufacturing. Why would the Fair Tax proposal then not cause a disincentive on the demand side of the economy? ("How will the plan affect economic growth" in the FAQ clearly espouses a particular economic ideology that has yet to be supported by any of the facts of history.)

It also places the entire tax burden on the consumer. Annual pre-tax corporate profits are somewhere between $800 billion and $2 trillion, depending on which data you decide to believe. Why is all that money being left on the table in favor of drawing the entire national budget from consumers?

Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by ars on Sunday June 16, 2013 @02:24AM (#5887659)
Tax already has an effect on demand - it reduces income, which reduces available money. This just makes it more obvious.

Corporations are owned by people (consumers as you call them), tax the person, not the intermediary.

And in any case the corporation would also have to pay the tax on everything they buy.

Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by eightyone on Sunday June 16, 2013 @06:23AM (#5888028)
You should check out the link I posted above. Under the FairTax the highest and lowest brackets will see their share of taxes go down. Everyone who makes between $15,000 and $200,000 will see their share of taxes go up.
Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by eightyone on Sunday June 16, 2013 @06:18AM (#5888018)
The FairTax also shifts more of the tax burden on to the middle-class. No thanks.

"With the prebate program in effect, those earning less than $15,000 per year would see their share of the federal tax burden drop from -0.7 percent to -6.3 percent. Of course, if the poorest Americans are paying less under the FairTax plan, then someone else pays more. As it turns out, according to the Treasury Department, “someone else” is everybody earning between $15,000 and $200,000 per year. The chart below compares the share of the federal tax burden for different income groups under the current system and under the FairTax. Those in the highest and the lowest brackets will see their share decrease, while everyone else will see their share of taxes increase."

http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/unspinning_the_fairtax.html

Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by ajross on Saturday June 15, 2013 @11:32PM (#5887332)
The Fair Tax would "take care of" neither of the examples tptacek gave... Like all other sales tax proposals, it relies on voluntary reporting of sales. Want to cheat the IRS? Just don't tell them about it.
Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by ars on Sunday June 16, 2013 @02:26AM (#5887665)
> Want to cheat the IRS? Just don't tell them about it.

This might help your customers, but it doesn't help you (unless you charge the sales tax and don't forward it). So the cheating incentives are much lower.

Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by glurgh on Saturday June 15, 2013 @04:31PM (#5886212)
These seem like orthogonal issues, though. Even with the most simplistic tax code conceivable (say, a flat tax) a tax authority would have to examine your self-reported financial data and financial data relating to you reported by third parties.

And if you're suspected of misrepresentation, they'd still have good reason to go rummaging through your publicly or legally accessible info to make their case. These steps appear independent of the details of the tax code.

Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by knowaveragejoe on Saturday June 15, 2013 @01:38PM (#5885707)
If you're implying they can go to eBay and figure out what you've been purchasing, that's quite scary. On the other hand, if they go through the accepted channels and gather that information from the credit card companies, that seems more acceptable.
Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by kalininalex on Saturday June 15, 2013 @11:31PM (#5887320)
Or you may have just cashed out your 1-year CD that paid you .86%. You had $2.3M there and received income of ... $20k. Disappointed by the depressed interest rates you went on a shopping spree, which included a Ferrary.
Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by ctdonath on Saturday June 15, 2013 @10:44AM (#5885133)
Wake up? So long as none of it actually affects people on a day-to-day basis they won't care. Otherwise it's just another abstraction.
Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by Shivetya on Saturday June 15, 2013 @11:04AM (#5885173)
Last I read the IRS is not part of the legislative branch, the NSA being part of the DOD may not be as well. Which mostly seems to be true from the stonewalling both agencies are able to do in regards to Congress.

You have to wonder, if an agency of the government is not answerable to Congress who represents us, then why do they exist?

Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by npsimons on Saturday June 15, 2013 @11:43AM (#5885274)
As an employee of another part of the DoD, you can bet your ass we're answerable to congress, and not just for budget. There also happens to be this pesky little thing called the constitution. I'm not sure of the details (I took an oath to uphold it so long ago), but I think there may be some directive in there about the right of people to remain secure "in their papers", and it doesn't give any exceptions (eg, to future government agencies or to corporations).
Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by mpyne on Saturday June 15, 2013 @12:29PM (#5885412)
Actually, it does limit the need for Warrants to "unreasonable searches and seizures".

But, ah! Is this a "reasonable" search on the part of the IRS? Congress thinks so, but we would have to leave it to the Supreme Court to decide.

Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by tptacek on Saturday June 15, 2013 @05:28PM (#5886335)
Both the IRS and NSA are part of the Executive branch.
Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by throwaway10001 on Saturday June 15, 2013 @01:07PM (#5885557)
Who do you hate America? What do you have to hide? It's all to protect the chilrun /sarcasm

Sadly, the train has left, even courts are neutered. They can and are supposed to nip it in the but they will not do it. Journos are harassed at airports for doing investigative works, and no one wants to do anything about it

Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by shardling on Saturday June 15, 2013 @09:10PM (#5886943)
JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH THIS TYPE OF "HUMOR".
Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by euroclydon on Saturday June 15, 2013 @11:00AM (#5885163)
Terrorism is bad. Tax cheating is a serous loss of revenue. Online privacy is a much more abstract concern for citizens than having their entire office building blown up or even a few tens of billions of annual tax revenue being lost.

You know how people complain about the DMV? That's because they don't have to wait in line as long at their bank. It's the same thing with the IRS and Big Data, when a government agency doesn't use the latest technology, they can rightfully be accused of being antiquated. It just so happens that people are much more supportive of shorter DMV lines than they are of paying sales tax on Amazon purchases -- go figure.

Furthermore, if government uses big data to catch polluters, that good. But if government uses big data to catch someone planning a bombing, that's bad?

Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by josh2600 on Saturday June 15, 2013 @11:24AM (#5885226)
This is an absurdly reductive argument.

No one is saying the governments use of Big Data is bad except in the circumstances where our government sees fit to hide its usage or utility even when it directly impacts its citizenry.

It is not the use of modern technology or even the goals, which many on HN will admit are admirable. It is about the path used to reach the end just as much as it is about the end.

I believe that we have very smart law enforcement officials who don't need to routinely violate the privacy of Americans to do their jobs.

Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by university on Saturday June 15, 2013 @11:26AM (#5885236)
That recaptured loss of revenue will only be used to fund the military and further oppress the people.

There are entire families on the streets and cities like Detroit are crumbling, yet tax payer money is siphoned into more prisons and spy technology.

Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by glurgh on Saturday June 15, 2013 @11:34AM (#5885250)
Isn't the logical conclusion of this (factually unsupported) argument that we should just stop paying and collecting taxes? You might as well give up on having an organized society if your criteria are things like 'no tax cent should be spent on something I don't like'.
Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by adventured on Saturday June 15, 2013 @08:44PM (#5886851)
No, that isn't the logical conclusion at all.

The logical conclusion is that we need to cut the military in half expenditure wise (saving $340+ billion per year instantly, and cutting our budget deficit in half instantly, while still leaving a massive budget for the military). We need to close 9 out of 10 military bases around the world, perhaps more. End Homeland Security and the TSA. Strictly enforce privacy laws, including the 4th amendment, such that anybody in the government that violates them does hard prison time. Cut the espionage budget ($80+ billion) substantially, including all of the budget allocated to illegal domestic spying. Pass new restrictions on the ability of the executive branch to wage undeclared war (ie without congressional approval), both in the style of what we're doing now in Syria and the more traditional war in Iraq. We should also simplify the tax code, simultaneously wiping out a lot of tax fraud by ending 99% of all loopholes and deductions, and slashing the IRS in half, saving tens of billions per year in tax compliance costs.

We should also, obviously, end the failed war on drugs, and end the mass prison system. The policy of holding in prison millions of political prisoners should be immediately stopped, bringing the extremely violent 'war on drugs' assault on liberty by the government from 1980 until now, to an end. This war of power and greed, costs hundreds of billions of dollars per year in government expenditures, lost lives, lost productivity, prison costs, and the destroyed futures of those held captive as political prisoners (many to be enslaved for labor in corporate prisoners). Not to mention the tens of thousands of lives it ends around the world every year. We currently spend over $100 billion just to keep 2.2 million people in prison.

Your conclusion at the end presents a false choice. Simple black and white example: if you don't like violent gestapo politics, you might as well give up on all organized society (you can actually insert any government action, which proves your position to be filled with holes). The parent never said "no cent should be spent on something I don't like."

Re:The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually ev... by glurgh on Saturday June 15, 2013 @10:31PM (#5887197)
The parent said that any additional revenue recovered from uncollected taxes will necessarily be spent on oppressing people implied there is no point collecting it.

I wasn't starting a debate on how we should spend tax revenue, just a comment that this sort of statement is inherently silly.