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A comment on US surveillance revelations deepen European fears.

Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by lazyjones on Saturday June 08, 2013 @01:09PM (#5845479)
The EU commission is a bunch of hypocrites. I am an European and I am appalled by the lack of integrity of our politicians: they hand over data on flights, credit cards, SWIFT transactions to other countries and keep trying to pass ACTA in its various forms despite strong opposition of the EU population, they created their own mass-surveillance laws (active in many european countries) and then they pretend to be outraged at the mass-surveillance of the US they themselves have helped facilitate in its full breadth. Cretins!
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Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by doe88 on Saturday June 08, 2013 @01:12PM (#5845490)
Indeed! I think the only reason Britain or France still don't have the same mass-surveillance systems in place is their lack of budgets. Otherwise I'm sure we wouldn't be better protected than the americans in the US. Although, the irony being that certainly the US knows more on us (europeans) than our own countries.
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Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by omd on Saturday June 08, 2013 @01:59PM (#5845632)
We lack the budget because that's the government we voted for. And the reason we don't spend a third of our budget on defense is not because we can't but because we don't want to.

I'm glad we don't have a mass-surveillance system and I would like to keep it that way. I don't get this attitude of "we're no better so who cares". What the US government does in the US is their business and what ours does here is our business, but when a foreign government starts spying on me that pisses me off. I wonder what your reaction would be if it was China reading your emails.

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Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by AlexeiSadeski on Saturday June 08, 2013 @03:21PM (#5845954)
Less than a fifth of US public budget is spent on defense...
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Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by notimetorelax on Saturday June 08, 2013 @03:34PM (#5846003)
It's a lot, no?
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Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by mpyne on Saturday June 08, 2013 @04:11PM (#5846135)
By GDP it's really not, no (about 4.7% for much more ability than any other nation). It's a lot in absolute terms, but so is the American economy.

It is higher as a proportion of GDP than many of our NATO allies, but then again that's actually one of our complaints as Americans... ;)

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by summerdown2 on Sunday June 09, 2013 @04:47AM (#5848100)
It really is a lot in global terms. E.g.:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/7971d5fa4...

And the difficulty in spending this much comes in two ways:

a) The more important your hammer becomes, the more everything looks like a nail. The US has frequently undertaken a military response for areas where other countries might use diplomacy.

b) The military, plus contractors, plus jobs that depend on the military, plus PR and lobbying firms, all tend to distort politics in favour of increasing military importance.

Don't get me wrong: the UK and EU in general owes a lot to US military power over the years and should thank the US for a lot of our freedoms. But there is a flip side, and I think it should be recognised that such a large amount of spending does distort things.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by AlexeiSadeski on Sunday June 09, 2013 @08:48PM (#5851550)
The US spends 2.5x as much on the military as does Poland, as a % of GDP.

It's a lot, but not exactly extraordinary.

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Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by natrius on Saturday June 08, 2013 @03:00PM (#5845856)
Britain has access to PRISM. I wouldn't be surprised if other European governments do as well.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/07/uk-gatherin...

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Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by EliRivers on Saturday June 08, 2013 @01:34PM (#5845557)
Also the phenomenal incompetency of our (British) gubbermint when it comes to buying any item of IT more elaborate than ordering an iPod from Amazon. One of the greatest defences we have against the encroachment of the state in the UK is the amiable ineptness of it at every stage.
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Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by lazyjones on Saturday June 08, 2013 @01:35PM (#5845563)
The US secret services are also convenient scapegoats, our own government agencies can simply ask them for information on EU citizens that would be illegal to collect in the EU and they probably do so frequently.
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Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by alan_cx on Saturday June 08, 2013 @03:30PM (#5845984)
Oh hell. Looks like the anti European thing has just hit poor HN. :(
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Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by skrebbel on Saturday June 08, 2013 @03:52PM (#5846074)
One interesting thing about Euroscepsis is, to my unscientific observations, that it is pretty well represented in all layers of society. There's plenty anti-EU people of all levels of educations, family backgrounds and vocations. Their reasons wildly vary, though, and those might coincide more with particular groups.

This is not to say that all these people also vote for the populist anti-EU parties, which typically have a broader populist agenda (e.g. EU bad and muslims bad)

Nevertheless, this makes it obvious that there's also plenty of anti-EU folk on HN, simply because there's plenty Europeans here. Especially in a thread with the word 'Europe' in the title, I'm not surprised.

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Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by lazyjones on Saturday June 08, 2013 @11:38PM (#5847451)
I am not anti-european, on the contrary. I am just against EU agendas that are pushed against the will of the majority of the EU population and clearly against their interests. The EU is a great idea and project, but the EU commission is a bunch of crooks.
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Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by znowi on Saturday June 08, 2013 @11:57PM (#5847504)
I may partly agree with your assessment. There's always room for improvement. But in comparison to the US, the EU is the privacy heaven :)
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Re:US surveillance revelations deepen European fears by 1morepassword on Saturday June 08, 2013 @04:08PM (#5846128)
It's bullshit blaming the EU, given that it's countries like the UK, Ireland e.a. that are pushing for all of this on order to serve their great friends the US.

It's the EU that stands between us and corrupt national governments handing over our civil rights to US intelligence and business interest. If the EU didn't block this kind of crap half the time we would be way worse of.

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