Realize that as bad as your company is at building software, it is probably equally bad at other things, like: Recognizing that someone has checked out, or Firing someone.
When I was in your situation I went into cruise control. I did the absolute minimum to avoid disciplinary action and began seeking out greener pastures.
This was my first development job, so I wasn't sure everywhere else wouldn't be the same. I also didn't have a very strong resume yet. I also wanted to switch from Java to Ruby. It ended up taking me almost a year, partly because I wanted to be certain the next place would be an improvement.
The next company I went to work for was awesome :-)
OP, you appear to have plenty of experience and can probably be chose-y about your next move and still not have to wait very long. There are a lot of great places hiring.
Bad mouthing former employers in an interview is totally not cool in my books.
Sometimes companies are just damn awful.
Ever.
Even if you worked for Satan himself, and he had Kafka and Joseph Heller design the Waterfall development process, and your team lead had the IQ of a telephone pole and the personality of a Comcast customer service rep.
You can say you weren't a good fit. That you felt the toolchain hurt developer productivity. Talk about how you want to be part of an organization that will let you hit your maximum level of achievement. Talk about how you hate bureaucracy because it puts barriers between you and the work that needs doing.
That's all fine. Show me, the interviewer, how driven you are to create.
But the second you start talking about how miserable you were, or how much of an asshole you thought your boss was, or about how much of an idiot your team lead was, you've basically cost yourself the job.
You might be completely right, but if you start talking about this during an interview, you come across as an antisocial, whiny, needy child. If these problems were so upsetting, why did you stay so long? Why didn't you try to fix things?
I want people in my company that will actively fix problems, not just complain about them.
I, the interviewer, can't change anything about your last job, and complaining to me about it doesn't help either of us. I'm going to wonder how you'll be to work with if you can't put the past behind you. I'm also going to wonder what you'll say about me, and the team, when you leave. Will you paint us in the same light as the job from hell?
If you whine about how much you hated your last job, all you do is turn on every red flag I have regarding personal interaction.
Saying bad things about previous employers in a constructive manner is not a red flag. (Wasn't there a recent study showing that the people who complain also tend to be productive?) I sure hope so, because I complain a lot.
If the company was badly organised, behind the times and resistant to change, I don't think there's anything much wrong with saying it. IMHO.
There are lots of people in the world who are impossible to satisfy, who blame all failure on everyone but themselves. They have complaints about everything, justified or otherwise.
By bringing these things up, a person who does not otherwise know you has two possibilities:
- The company you worked for really was that bad. This claim cannot be verified in a meaningful way.
- The candidate you're interviewing is one of these dreaded negative nancies who will disrupt your workplace as they proceed to complain about everything and redirect their own problems upon other people.
Since there is no way to tell which is true, and I have no incentive to trust you, and every disincentive to bring in someone like that into my office, I will not hire you.
Direct, concrete criticism is fine. "We used the waterfall model and I don't believe it works" - but do not come off as bitter, because that's exactly what the Negative Nancy typically sounds like.
If you say a single negative thing about your past employer i will immediately be fearful that you are that type of person. In fact, when I interview developers I specifically try to get them to say something negative about their current job. I do this because whiners are so unbelievably destructive to an organization that I never want to hire one.
Now I ask you... What positive purpose does it serve to bad mouth your previous employer to a prospective employer?
I'm afraid I don't consider a well reasoned and well thought out criticism to be 'whining'
Hello again, friend. I politely request you reconsider what I wrote. I didn't say that you would be a whiner. I said that since I don't know you that my fear is you may be a whiner. Since people who whine are so damaging to organizations, I would almost certainly not hire you regardless of your other attributes.
Having said that, I certainly respect honesty. But please realize there are times when it's better to say nothing than to be completely honest. I've been married for 10 years so I have some experience in this. Have a nice day!
The interviewer can and will draw their own conclusions, both about the previous employer you're talking about, and more importantly, you.
They put out bad software, slowly, but seem to just about keep on ticking over. Suggestions for improvements are often met with mild positive feedback and a sense of amusement that you think you can actually change the place for the better.
Toxic is the right word - my personal experience is that hanging around to try and untangle/learn from the environment makes me super unhappy, and unmotivated.
I'm familiar with that situation.
Two things:
1.) You're in no danger, there's likely no accountability at any level and you don't have to be in a hurry to quit. As a relative newcomer, what you see as a death spiral is likely status quo for the organization - it's a zombie.
2.) You never had a chance at effecting any real change, so don't feel guilty about bailing.