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Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by yummyfajitas on Sunday June 02, 2013 @10:27AM (#5808612)
A company doing business in Bangladesh has a fixed amount of money they can spend on compensation + safety + etc. In a competitive industry like garment manufacturing, the margins are already very thin, so increasing safety will result in reduced worker pay (or shutting down and workers becoming unemployed).

There is no free lunch. The most we can do is force workers to trade pay for safety, which they might not want to do.

...re-balancing some of the giant manufacturing cost differential that these companies achieve by such a side-step.

The primary goal of many activists is exactly this: re-balancing the cost differential so that low skill American workers can continue to be paid well. I.e., a redistribution of wealth from Bangladesh to the US.

Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by jonknee on Sunday June 02, 2013 @11:14AM (#5808790)
> A company doing business in Bangladesh has a fixed amount of money they can spend on compensation + safety + etc.

That's not true, the safety expenses should be mandated and everyone's prices will increase accordingly. Prices are set according to costs and in the developed world, safety is a required cost. It could happen overnight if the big customers actually required it. Imagine if Walmart suspended billions of dollars worth of contracts until safety standards were met.

Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by yummyfajitas on Sunday June 02, 2013 @11:31AM (#5808847)
If prices go up sufficiently then there is no advantage to building a factory in Bangladesh. Bangladeshi workers then become unemployed.

Right now, Bangladesh needs wealth more than anything else. Once they have wealth, they can spend it on things like OSHA.

Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by betterunix on Sunday June 02, 2013 @12:30PM (#5809062)
Or, you know, those countries could have factories that satisfy their markets, and we could have factories that satisfy ours. All without having to kill people in the process or burning dirty fuels shipping goods halfway around the world.
Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by Dylan16807 on Sunday June 02, 2013 @03:57PM (#5809862)
If they're only satisfying local (poorer) markets, then they have even less money to worry about things like safety.
Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by icebraining on Sunday June 02, 2013 @02:03PM (#5809451)
Factories that satisfy their markets won't magically become safe and clean, much like the ones in the now "developed word" during the industrialization phase weren't.
Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by kamakazizuru on Sunday June 02, 2013 @01:10PM (#5809254)
theres an interesting course called economics 101 - check it out.
Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by city41 on Sunday June 02, 2013 @12:40PM (#5809111)
The problem with that is country borders. If China mandated safety then the factories just move to another country.
Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by betterunix on Sunday June 02, 2013 @12:54PM (#5809182)
Yeah, and the solution is not to only mandate safety standards at your own factories, but to impose a stiff tariff on goods produced in countries without comparable standards (and without meaningful enforcement). Yeah, I know, "free trade," but it is not a fair market if some people are playing by a different set of rules, and we do not want to have a race to the bottom.
Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by icebraining on Sunday June 02, 2013 @02:31PM (#5809561)
Agreed. Then some factory owners will build robots instead (as they're already doing due to wage rises in China) and wipe out any foreign competition along with jobs. It's for their own good, after all.
Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by city41 on Sunday June 02, 2013 @03:47PM (#5809814)
It is for their own good. Robots are inevitable, better to push them out now and start addressing what they mean for society than pretend they're never coming.
Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by icebraining on Sunday June 02, 2013 @05:14PM (#5810131)
Isn't it better if they have time to transition to more services oriented economy first?
Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by city41 on Monday June 03, 2013 @02:50PM (#5815036)
Sure, that would be better. It'd be awesome if they could transition to any type of better economy. But I think given all the circumstances and what is happening, facing and accepting reality is the best way to go. Because the robots are coming, waiting for the country to be ready just isn't going to happen.
Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by dllthomas on Sunday June 02, 2013 @02:10PM (#5809478)
What we need, I think, is international agreement on what those tariffs should be.
Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by jonknee on Sunday June 02, 2013 @04:59PM (#5810066)
That's why I suggested the customers mandate safety. If Walmart/Nike/Apple/etc required safety it doesn't matter where the factories move.

Western nations could incentivize this by not assessing fines for firms caught producing their products in unsafe factories (I assume a couple billion dollar fine would be more impactful to Apple than a scathing NY Times article).

Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by JanezStupar on Monday June 03, 2013 @04:33AM (#5812049)
Ehh... No.

Because they would have nowhere to move to.

First... China has a humongous work force, which solely on numbers no other country can compete with, you need whole continents to get the same mass of workforce.

Second, in comparison to the rest of the BRIC competitors - Chinese workforce is relatively homogenous, well educated and most importantly of all they have a work ethic (Brazil? Hahahahah).

Third, low price is not the sole reason why stuff is produced in China (Go read why Ipad production is never returning to the US according to Steve Jobs).

Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by nemo on Sunday June 02, 2013 @11:45AM (#5808898)
"The most we can do is force workers to trade pay for safety, which they might not want to do."

This is a weird way to frame things, as though workers don't really mind being killed or injured on the job. Safety is management's responsibility, not an employee choice.

Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by yummyfajitas on Sunday June 02, 2013 @12:22PM (#5809036)
The question is not whether workers mind being killed or injured. The question is which they mind more - lower pay, unemployment, or an increased risk of injury or death.

There are many things we could do to reduce your first world risk of death - mandate that all cars are have a mechanically enforced speed limit of 20mph, for example. We choose not to. Why?

Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by betterunix on Sunday June 02, 2013 @12:48PM (#5809151)
That argument presupposes that people are not facing a real risk of starving to death if they are unemployed. I am not sure that is something that can be assumed.

When there is a gun pointed at your head, you do not have a real choice.

Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by icebraining on Sunday June 02, 2013 @02:34PM (#5809566)
Are you saying that the capitalists saved (most of) their lives by giving them jobs?
Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by glenra on Sunday June 02, 2013 @03:48PM (#5809819)
>as though workers don't really mind being killed or injured on the job.

It's a matter of probabilities, not certainty. And workers quite often DO prefer to trade off safety against other concerns. Not just pay, either. Convenience is a big one. When I worked at a factory in China, I was told the people using heavy machinery had safety goggles available but often preferred not to wear their googles, because doing so was hot and uncomfortable. Management would nag people to do so but wouldn't require it. In that sort of circumstance, giving workers objectively more freedom and personal responsibility allows them to be less safe - but more comfortable! - compared to how they would be in the US with OSHA breathing down people's necks.

Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by nemo on Sunday June 02, 2013 @04:43PM (#5810011)
Yeah that's why OSHA puts responsibility on business owners instead of employees. People have cognitive biases that cause them to make all kinds of terrible decisions about safety, which is why leaving safety to "personal responsibility" is a horrifying idea with serious negative consequences. OSHA might be frustrating at times, but it didn't appear in a vacuum.
Re:Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap by city41 on Sunday June 02, 2013 @12:39PM (#5809101)
We can also educate consumers and show them they really should be buying garments made in America or at least in better conditions/wages than the average. I happily pay more for my clothes knowing that the extra money goes towards that.