Try sending her this article. I'd rather be single than marry someone who has so much more emotion than logic. To put it another way: If the ring is more important to the woman than I am, then she's not marrying me, she's marrying the ring. It's a huge red flag to me.

Word.

For the record, not all women insist on a diamond, except reflexively... I actually know few couples that have bought diamond rings (for many reasons - some financial planning (a young couple should be worried about a house, insurance and retirement before a shiny ring) and some ethical (if you buy a new diamond, there is absolutely metaphorical blood on it - terrible juju to kick off a lifetime commitment of love))

Self-interest/selfish alert: if you're rolling in it and get that $30k ring for your spouse-to-be, don't give it to them on their birthday, Christmas or any other gifting occasion, because they don't have to give it back if they decide to ditch you Pre-nuptuals.

In my mind if a marriage isn't a lifetime commitment, then forget any of the other traditions.

I'm not aware of any law that requires her to give it back, no matter the day.

In many jurisdictions an engagement ring is considered a conditional gift (conditional upon her agreement to marry you).

This is logical. Otherwise why not string along as many man as possible to the point of proposal, then thank them for the shiny ring and wish them farewell? Take the strategy to its inevitable conclusion, and if the woman in question calls off the engagement at any point, she should return the ring.

On the list of things that could be wrong in a relationship, wanting a diamond engagement ring is probably pretty low on the things to worry about.

They're not marrying the ring, they're marrying you, but the ring is a signal about your relationship.

How about a reverse signal: will she still love you without the ring?

  | If the ring is more important to the
  | woman than I am, then she's not marrying
  | me, she's marrying the ring

From some women's perspectives the diamond ring is 'proof' of your love.

"If X is more important to you than her happiness..."

It's kind of a two-way street - which of you is more willing to make a sacrifice for this relationship? Perhaps a compromise can be reached...

-d, husband for 18.5yrs and counting

> From some women's perspectives the diamond ring is 'proof' of your love.

I wouldn't want a woman so ignorant.

A commitment to spend one's life with the other person isn't proof of love?

You're committed to spend your entire life together but aren't willing to drop a few grand today? Uh-huh.

(Just playing devil's advocate. With the argument I got.)

That's a claim, not a proof.

Then she should do them both a favor and pronounce him not good enough for her, so they can both move on.

I sent my GF the article :-D

Sometimes it's more about understanding what is real and then making a pragmatic choice due to the pain of having to explain one self constantly. A woman could fully understand that a ring is worthless but deal in circles where the public perception is such that having one anyway is beneficial.

Start early maybe? My fiancee had 2 years of knowing I wouldn't buy a diamond before I popped the question so she knew way out and it wasn't a surprise. If she was the type that would demand a diamond she would have left a long time ago.

Let me guess, all of these men who are so principled as to refuse to buy diamonds still conveniently want their fiancé to look good. To dress nicely, not be overweight, shiny hair, nice skin. This requires some money, time, and effort.

Heels will damage her feet over the long run, clothes are over priced and expensive, the makeup industry causes all sorts of evil just like diamonds. But you'll want her to look good the way your culture defines it, because it signals your value socially.

But diamonds are horrible and women are selfish and irrational for wanting them.

> but try telling your fiancée-to-be that.

Yes, how else would you start reversing it?