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Re:Checkboxes that kill your product by negativity on Monday March 18, 2013 @12:40PM (#5395305)
What total bullshit. JavaScript should not be mandatory. It SHOULD ALWAYS remain controllable, and killable. That should stay in the hands of the users. The idea that "disabling JavaScript" is a bug and not a feature is repugnant to me.

And images? Most people are too naive to understand that the <img> tag represents an HTTP GET for every occurrence. Being able to lock down GETS and limit them is a safety measure, not a bug. Just because users are naive, and that such naivety is encouraged by greedy parties, does not mean that the feature should not exist.

Certificate Authorities? SSL? Destroying the ability to control your cache?

Alex Limi should take note that the browser exists for the user, not the faceless "product" locked away in remote internet server land. Not all websites are "product" designed with the intent to extract cash from people's pockets. The browser is the last gateway of control a user has over what the internet is allowed to do to their machines. Taking these settings away represents a set of handcuffs.

Is it not clear that JavaScript can be used as a weapon against the user, to obfuscate, and limit the user's understanding of the actual behavior of any given HTML document?

Privacy Engineer Monica Chew should take note that people will fork or abandon their open-source browser if it doesn't represent their interests. People with the technical awareness to know better will advise people to avoid Firefox, if decisions like this are on the horizon.

Blame people like Alex Limi and Monica Chew if Firefox becomes the next Internet Explorer.

Design-by-committee indeed. Design by Steve Ballmer is one possible alternative, is it not? Does that sound better? I think we know what authoritarian decision making can look like.

Wow! No respect for this troll-bait article under any circumstances. I don't care what their pedigrees are.

Re:Checkboxes that kill your product by coldpie on Monday March 18, 2013 @01:44PM (#5395816)
Your nick is apt. Calm down a bit, yeah? He's talking about removing useless configuration options from a prominent dialog, not placing you in a "set of handcuffs."

Except maybe for the cache control, the settings the author talks about are basically useless. Third-party plugins like NoScript are a much better solution. Be honest, do you use the "Disable JS" checkbox, or do you use NoScript?

"Disable Images" can be handy in certain, very specific settings, but it doesn't really deserve a slot in the main preferences dialog.

I don't think the author is advocating the complete removal of these options. I think he's objecting to how prominent they are in Firefox's UI. about:config is the perfect repository for all of these tweaks, and I expect the dialog is already just a frontend to about:config.

His point is they can make better use of that prominence than they currently are.

Re:Checkboxes that kill your product by josephlord on Monday March 18, 2013 @02:21PM (#5396118)
> "Disable Images" can be handy in certain, very specific settings, but it doesn't really deserve a slot in the main preferences dialog.

When I have a highly limited connection is just the time I wouldn't want to download a plugin OR be searching for instructions about how to disable images. It is also fairly good plain language that even non-experts could understand. I think it probably does deserve a place somewhere in the settings.

Re:Checkboxes that kill your product by zv on Monday March 18, 2013 @02:20PM (#5396112)
Disable Images are handy when your internet is slow (lagging public wifi, heavy packet loss) and you need to get job done.
Re:Checkboxes that kill your product by progrock on Monday March 18, 2013 @06:13PM (#5397519)
I like the disable images in my toolbar. Each to their own.
Re:Checkboxes that kill your product by dave5104 on Monday March 18, 2013 @01:52PM (#5395890)
I don't think I've ever heard my parents ever want to shut off Javascript or disable GET requests from <img> tags.

I think you're forgetting that Firefox is not used exclusively by developers who may find those options useful. They're simply one /portion/ of Firefox users, and in my opinion, developers should be considered power users. In which case, moving some of the more "advanced" options off to about:config, where power users would be more than comfortable.

I don't think the article is advocating for disabling these options completely. Rather simply hiding them from the average Firefox user who doesn't need to mess with them.

Re:Checkboxes that kill your product by romaniv on Monday March 18, 2013 @03:06PM (#5396420)
I think you are forgetting that whether your website works without images and JS is up to you as a developer. Disabling those things should not completely break normal websites. The immediacy of those checkboxes is a good reminder.
Re:Checkboxes that kill your product by potch on Monday March 18, 2013 @03:41PM (#5396642)
I have some bad news about what constitutes a "normal" website these days.
Re:Checkboxes that kill your product by Dylan16807 on Monday March 18, 2013 @04:08PM (#5396798)
I think in the last three weeks I have needed javascript for three things:

1. feed/email app sites

2. trying out stacksort

3. loading flash embeds on youtube because youtube is set up annoyingly

So tell me your bad news. What sites are you talking about here that apparently make up a majority of the internet and need javascript?

Also I just turned off images and tried a few pages, nothing broke. Google's homepage had a perfectly visible text box, I'm not sure what the problem in the article was.

Re:Checkboxes that kill your product by codesuela on Monday March 18, 2013 @06:14PM (#5397524)
How about facebook (specifically messaging and paging also no likes and comments for users without JS)? I know, you probably don't use it but I know quite a few people who do.
Re:Checkboxes that kill your product by negativity on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @01:32PM (#5402312)
Yeah, but that's why it's a switch, and these features are defaulted to "enabled".

Nothing wrong there. We need these switches. Taking them away is a bad, BAD idea.

If the discussion were about how to provide access to these settings in a cleaner manner, so that people understand why they exist, and how to properly use them, I'm all for that. Increasing awareness and informing people about what the internet does, how it all works, and why they should care is a good idea.

This article doesn't take that tone. It just says "Ew, yucky! Hide all these settings because they're ugly, or better yet, don't make them settings. Don't even let people change them. It doesn't matter how practical they are. They keep us from making money. The ivory tower, where all the developers live, will be able to figure out a way around the road blocks we put up as they usually do."

Re:Checkboxes that kill your product by Dylan16807 on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @12:39AM (#5398983)
Messaging is more of an 'app' thing than a website thing. Comments not working just makes me call it one of the minority of badly-coded sites. There is absolutely no need for scripting just to have comments.
Re:Checkboxes that kill your product by singleuse on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @05:00AM (#5399680)
Is it worth alienating web developer and power users because they represent a small fraction of your user base ?

Try alienating your power users and wonder your product suddenly start bleeding regular users along with power users.

Start alienating web developer and wonder why suddenly websites start breaking in your browser.

This article is advocating total removal or rendering as impractical as possible as a mean of protecting ignorant people from their ignorance all in the sake of brand image.

Re:Checkboxes that kill your product by Shorel on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @11:22AM (#5401408)
In Opera you can have a set of options for each site.

Then you can disable JS for most sites and enable it for some.

The same for proxy server, cookies, etc.