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Re:Mandiant Exposes APT1, One of China’s Cyber Espionage Units by Nrsolis on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @11:44AM (#5245253)
I haven't read the report yet, but it's on my list.

That said, our (USA) national interests are at stake here. So far, we've left it up to the individual commercial parties to police and defend their own networks and that isn't working as well as we would like.

I know that there was once a trial balloon floated to get the NSA to help commercial interests properly detect and defend their IT infrastructure. IIRC, the privacy interests considered that a bigger risk than the Chinese. I'm not sure that isn't a bit myopic.

When a company like RSA gets hacked, you need to think about the guy with a gun banging at your door, not the boogeyman under the bed.

Re:Mandiant Exposes APT1, One of China’s Cyber Espionage Units by trotsky on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @12:44PM (#5245731)
The biggest problem with the NSA proposal was that it was dishonest. Industry has been asking them for threat alerts based on tier 1 network surveillance for some time, but the NSA (dba Cyber Command) has continually questioned whether they were chartered to share that information. As a response they offered to share data only with organizations that would place NSA instrumentation inside their private networks, which is what raised the privacy concerns.

Simply put, defense is hard. That's the main reason you've seen all of the national intelligence organizations playing hot potato with the issue. Hopefully this will be changing a bit for the better based on the executive order Obama signed recently that directs DHS, NSA and the FBI to expand their programs that share active threat information with private companies.

Re:Mandiant Exposes APT1, One of China’s Cyber Espionage Units by Nrsolis on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @01:12PM (#5245930)
I hear you and I don't want to underestimate or diminish the concerns that private companies have.

That said, the threat vectors for APTs aren't always solely network-based. IIRC, the behavior of the APT that struck RSA was fairly targeted and changed behavior once inside the network. It isn't unreasonable to think that the NSA would want to talk about putting sensors inside a private network where they could detect "successful" penetrations.

Again, we have every right to be wary of letting the (government) camel nose in the tent. I'm just saying that if you don't kinda sorta trust your government to help you fight a serious foreign power with nearly unlimited resources, you might need to reconsider your position. The threat from China is real and ongoing versus the theoretical threat from the US Government.

Re:Mandiant Exposes APT1, One of China’s Cyber Espionage Units by joequant on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @06:17PM (#5247802)
One problem is that multinational corporations are multinational with significant operations inside of China. I doubt that the NSA is going to be of much help in helping a US company secure its networks inside of China, and if that company has large numbers of Chinese employees in China, there are security issues with having US intelligence companies sharing sensitive US intelligence.

For example, the NYTimes has a bureau in Shanghai, and if they use a private contractor to help strengthen their networks, then I don't think that the Chinese government would be cancelling visas. If the NYTimes brought in the NSA, then I give the Chinese government five minutes before all of the visa get cancelled and the journalists get expelled.

Re:Mandiant Exposes APT1, One of China’s Cyber Espionage Units by greedo on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @09:12PM (#5248546)
Defense is hard; that doesn't mean measures shouldn't be taken to protect your assets. However, due to how western businesses operate, it's almost trivial to successfully attack them. The attack surface is just too large, and most businesses can't afford security measures and restrictions that would truly make them safe.
Re:Mandiant Exposes APT1, One of China’s Cyber Espionage Units by diminoten on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @11:55AM (#5245350)
This is the real conversation we need to be having; why are companies having to go toe-to-toe with nations, without the backing or support of their own government?
Re:Mandiant Exposes APT1, One of China’s Cyber Espionage Units by ComputerGuru on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @01:15PM (#5245954)
The unfortunate answer is quite simple: because we don't trust our own government. And with (some) good reason.
Re:Mandiant Exposes APT1, One of China’s Cyber Espionage Units by rayiner on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @02:59PM (#5246666)
Because contemporary net/tech culture believes in an extremist version of "those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither" philosophy. Inside the tech community, reasonable proposals are shouted down as the first step on the slippery slope to big brother. Outside the tech community, nobody really cares because they don't intuitively understand the need for network security in the way they might understand the need for border or airport security.
Re:Mandiant Exposes APT1, One of China’s Cyber Espionage Units by snowwrestler on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @02:30PM (#5246487)
U.S. companies do receive significant support from their government, typically in the form of FBI support for the investigation and mitigation of intrusions.

The really sophisticated stuff is on the military side, which is a black box. But who is to say that the NSA or DOD is not actively engaged in trying to analyze or degrade the capabilities of Chinese APTs? It's possible someone in the NSA is reading the Mandiant report right now thinking "not bad, they got almost half of what we know."

The recent Obama executive order should help get more of such info into the hands of companies.

Re:Mandiant Exposes APT1, One of China’s Cyber Espionage Units by greedo on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @09:13PM (#5248553)
From what I've heard, the US govt has basically decided that the best defense is a good offense. You don't hear of any of their successes because a) the US doesn't want to let it out, and b) the Chinese aren't especially fond of losing face.
Re:Mandiant Exposes APT1, One of China’s Cyber Espionage Units by GHFigs on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @02:19PM (#5246407)
One reason that conversation has been hard to have to date is that a bill like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Cyberspace_as_a_Nati..., gets reported in the press like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_kill_switch
Re:Mandiant Exposes APT1, One of China’s Cyber Espionage Units by snowwrestler on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @02:31PM (#5246493)
Exactly. And CISPA gets marketed as "SOPA warmed over" by activists eager to build their email lists.
Re:Mandiant Exposes APT1, One of China’s Cyber Espionage Units by joequant on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @06:38PM (#5247926)
Which government?

If you are a software company and you let it be known that you actively cooperate with the NSA and CIA, I doubt you'll be doing much business in China. I doubt France is going to let you in, either.

Outside of a few industries, the business losses from actively cooperating with a national government are going to be much larger than any losses due to hacking.

Re:Mandiant Exposes APT1, One of China’s Cyber Espionage Units by jstalin on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @07:08PM (#5248061)
This assumes that the government is better at it than private industry.
Re:Mandiant Exposes APT1, One of China’s Cyber Espionage Units by betterunix on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @01:18PM (#5245972)
What makes you think companies are not receiving help from the government?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Controversy