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A comment on A Chinese Hacker's Identity Unmasked. Parent comment

Re:A Chinese Hacker's Identity Unmasked by hexagonc on Sunday February 17, 2013 @12:56PM (#5236016)
I don't think we would want to use the disreputable behavior of nations in the past as a model for what is acceptable today. That's why treaties and agreements are made so that we learn from our mistakes. Not playing by the rules that you have agreed to and expect others to adhere to is cheating -- I have no problem with people calling China out on it. It's not like China is unfairly singled out and there isn't plenty of criticism of the US and US companies for bad behavior. Regardless of sovereignty, the Chinese don't have a right to ignore other countries' IP if they want those same countries to respect theirs.
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Re:A Chinese Hacker's Identity Unmasked by rdtsc on Sunday February 17, 2013 @02:43PM (#5236410)
> the Chinese don't have a right to ignore other countries' IP if they want those same countries to respect theirs.

But that "right" is a "moral right", that us perhaps want to impose on it. Not sure if it is an enforceable law.

If we stick to the moral approach. China might see it as hypocrisy as well. From their point of view they can say "well you stole to improve your industry, you burned coal like it was nobody's business to ramp up your steel mills, now you tell us we have to be green, and waste all this money duplicating R&D effort -- that's not fair, and it is our _right_ to do however we please".

Now practically I don't agree with that, but from a more rational position, I could see their point, as well.

It also seemed rather silly when we make fun of Chinese for stealing our high tech technology (stealth, radar, etc). It would seem pretty irrational and wasteful from their point of view _not_ to spend $100k to bribe some spy and instead do spend $10b developing stuff from scratch.

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Re:A Chinese Hacker's Identity Unmasked by hexagonc on Monday February 18, 2013 @10:09AM (#5238589)
If we stick to the moral approach. China might see it as hypocrisy as well. From their point of view they can say "well you stole to improve your industry, you burned coal like it was nobody's business to ramp up your steel mills, now you tell us we have to be green, and waste all this money duplicating R&D effort -- that's not fair, and it is our _right_ to do however we please".

No one has a problem with China emulating the things the US did to grow its economy that were good, such as allowing women to work and developing a highly educated workforce. However, we would not want them to use slavery or ignore the environmental impact of coal use because we now know that those were bad things. Repeating our mistakes is bad for the world and bad for China, as the Chinese are seeing for themselves the pollution derived from over-reliance on coal.

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Re:A Chinese Hacker's Identity Unmasked by dublinben on Sunday February 17, 2013 @02:00PM (#5236235)
IP is just a made up way for incumbent producers to squash competition. The Chinese have just as much right to ignore it as every other developing country in history did. Imposing developed standards on developing countries is just pulling the ladder up after ourselves.
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Re:A Chinese Hacker's Identity Unmasked by hexagonc on Monday February 18, 2013 @09:57AM (#5238520)
I'm not making a moral argument about IP and whether it is good or not. I'm saying that if you've entered into agreements with other nations on the premise that you do something (in this case, protect and not steal IP) then you should honor those agreements. Whether there is some Machiavelian reason to say you're doing one thing while secretly doing something else is a different question. I also don't think that Google should use espionage to steal secrets from Microsoft and vice versa, even if there is something to be gained.

One should also note that China is not some innocent bystander in this since Chinese companies have sought and obtained patents to stifle competition as well. I also think the distinction made between "developed" and "developing" countries is not useful in this case. China has the second largest economy in the world and is very modern by many standards. They have gained great wealth from the "developed" countries least of all because the developed countries are their largest market for trade. China has a net trade surplus of hundreds of billions of dollars. They are not an underdog in this.

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Re:A Chinese Hacker's Identity Unmasked by cscurmudgeon on Sunday February 17, 2013 @02:35PM (#5236374) 

  IP is just a made up way for incumbent producers to squash competition.
You are just saying that. Remember IP is not just patents. You seem to confusing different forms of stealing IP.

Do you feel that stealing source code is justifiable too?

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/01/google-hack-attack/

If so, then where do you draw the line?

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