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Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by benologist on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @05:01AM (#5133175)
*Guy who stole from artists everywhere.

It's much more accurate that way.

Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by noonespecial on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @05:31AM (#5133258)
Not all artists would agree. He did verifiably found the Pirate Bay. It is doubtful that he stole from artists "everywhere". So, um, less accurate.
Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by cookiecaper on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @05:19AM (#5133219)
What about: "guy who started a popular, light-speed, peer-to-peer library"?

Think about libraries and why they exist. Think about the way libraries work. Then compare with modern filesharing. It seems that the only difference is that online, we can trade things so fast that the old guard in big media can't think of a way to keep monetization intact.

Anyone who accepts the value of a library system (i.e., a big building that holds various kinds of "intellectual property" for members to peruse for free and/or a nominal one-time fee) should logically conclude that The Pirate Bay and its ilk are a public service, not a criminal engagement.

Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by biot on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @05:46AM (#5133291)
You might have an argument if all uploads to TPB were purchased (or otherwise legally licensed) copies and people sharing materials in this peer to peer library could only share as many simultaneous copies as were purchased. There are a few companies who are trying to adopt such a legal peer-to-peer lending network.

However, there's a great example of a modern library where you can find works produced by small and big media alike, and monetization is effortless for the consumer via nominal, one-time fees: Apple's App Store. Yet still people find ways to circumvent the new guard just to avoid paying 99 cents for apps.

Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by eru on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @04:02PM (#5136241)
I wasn't aware that the pirate accepted any uploads other than torrent-files, which do not contain copyrighted information.
Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by cookiecaper on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @04:51PM (#5136578)
This is a good semantic distinction for legal considerations, but in this primarily philosophical discussion on the implications of filesharing, I think "donating" a torrent which serves as a proxy to the actual content to TPB and "donating" an actual copyrighted work to a library are decent analogs.
Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by eru on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @08:33PM (#5137577)
Isn't seeding the equivalent of the donation to the library, and torrenting just filling out the catalog index card?
Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by Volpe on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @05:59AM (#5133312)
Didn't the "original" seeder, pay for the copy?

Seems to be that rather than pay taxes to buy content for the library, one can just contribute directly to that library.

Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by biot on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @06:25AM (#5133389)
Not necessarily, though no doubt some have paid. Leaked copies of movies and software are sometimes uploaded prior to the media being made available for sale. Theater employees have been caught camming movies and uploading them without having paid for a license. Others upload rentals or media captured from broadcast TV, not purchases.

Public libraries welcome donations of books. And as I mentioned in my parent comment, startups are trying to work within copyright law to allow people to upload their movies/music and loan it out to others with the caveat that the number of simultaneous consumers of the media cannot exceed the number of licensed copies. I'd like to see such services take off, though they face an uphill battle to prove that loaning format shifted media isn't a copyright violation.

Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by harshreality on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @10:37AM (#5134519)
The uphill battle of libraries trying to deal with the technicalities of copyright law and its whimsical interpretation by the courts (format-shifting, etc.) is a minor battle, I think.

The real uphill battle is convincing content creators and distributors to focus on new and interesting ways to persuade people to pay for content, rather than trying to mandate that everyone pay for the content and mandating punishment for those who don't and are caught.

Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by cookiecaper on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @07:33AM (#5133611)
You're basically arguing against digitization of media. The whole point of digital stuff is that we can make nearly-instantaneous, perfect replicas with negligent overhead. That's why we convert and encode stuff as strings of repeatable digits. Attempting to limit the number of copies of mass-produced, digitized media in circulation is not only silly but totally futile. They simply must accept that the old monetization model based on artificially controlled scarcity is no longer tenable. As Bruce Schneier says, trying to make digital bits not copyable is like trying to make water not wet. It's an inextricable property of the medium.

Your example of the app store is actually good, and shows a good monetization path that actually benefits from the inherent properties of the digital medium. You're right that some people still try to pirate 99 cent apps, but in my experience those people aren't part of the audience in the first place, because they don't have the 99 cents to spend, or they wouldn't be wasting hours and days to save themselves a few dollars. The time of anyone with a job is significantly more valuable than that. While there are always going to be a few penny wise and pound foolish irrational actors in the mix, you can't cripple your business based on that kind of rabid obsession. You have to let it go at some point.

It's time to give up the archaic, draconian copyright regime that demands total control of a PC before it allows it to display a movie and reasonably embrace our digitized future, including building monetization models that aren't "sue filesharers".

Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by biot on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @07:56AM (#5133691)
My philosophy on this is simple: I ask myself what the right thing to do is. I saw Prometheus in the theater and liked it enough that I wanted to have it at home. When it was released on Bluray, I could have found a torrent and easily downloaded a ripped copy. Instead, in my mind the right thing to do was to vote with my wallet and reward those who made it by paying the asking price. I do this for digital bits delivered via Netflix, iTunes, and physical media whether purchased or rented via Redbox and such. I guess that makes me archaic.
Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by belorn on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @09:09AM (#5133987)
The great moral question of the twenty-first century is this: if all knowing, all culture, all art, all useful information can be costlessly given to everyone at the same price that it is given to anyone; if everyone can have everything, anywhere, all the time, why is it ever moral to exclude anyone?

Src: Eben Moglen

Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by Ntrails on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @11:39AM (#5134864)
Even if I did buy a blu-ray of it, I would torrent it because: a) I don't want to muck about with disks to watch things on my computer b) I don't know how to rip it myself (and doing so is no less illegal than torrenting afaik)
Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by cookiecaper on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @08:33AM (#5133823)
I purchase the media I consume too. That's not the part that's archaic, necessarily. It is no longer possible to artificially constrain supply of desired intellectual property, and business plans that refuse to consider this are archaic. It doesn't necessarily mean that no one will be paying money for intellectual property anymore.
Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by benologist on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @03:06PM (#5135938)
How about we come back to this when libraries are monetized by billions of ad impressions a month and don't even pay for what they hand out?
Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by cookiecaper on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @04:22PM (#5136385)
Libraries today are monetized by many millions of tax dollars, money which is extracted compulsorily from everyone within a certain geographic area. imo this is more lucrative than banner ad sales.

Libraries already often don't pay for everything that they hand out; they welcome and indeed rely upon donations.

Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by StavrosK on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @05:43AM (#5133287)
Which library are you talking about?
Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by bxbb on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @05:52AM (#5133300)
*Guy who stole from artists IS everywhere.

It's much more accurate that way.

corrected, that's how the torrent work :p

Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by mverwijs on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @07:49AM (#5133669)
What is your homeaddress? I'll send you 10 random CD's that I own.

Am I now stealing from the artists? Are you?

Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by quasque on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @09:19AM (#5134036)
Depends if you made a copy of the CDs first.
Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by mverwijs on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @09:58AM (#5134296)
Does it though?

One could argue that even without making the copy I am depriving artists from income. Perhaps one or two of those CDs you would actually have bought yourself had you not received them from me for free.

Follow that line of thought and pretty soon no gifts could ever be exchanged as it could potentially be considered theft.

Now, what if there were a website that you could post something like: "Man, I'd really love to have that latest Rihanna CD. Here's my address." And some do-gooder would be able to send you his copy, since he doesn't want it any longer.

No copies made. No money exchanged hands. Just a gift from one fan to another.

Yet you are still depriving Rihanna her 2cts. Someone is still stealing. I mean, Rihanna is still a few cents short, isn't she?

I don't know, man. This whole thing is too grey. Far too grey to simply say that TPB is depriving income simply by providing a platform for downloading .torrent files that could potentially be used to download copyrighted materials, which could possibly sometimes deprive some artist of some income.

Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by Kylekramer on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @10:54AM (#5134612)
I don't see what is so grey about it. Regifting property to one other person without retaining it, OK. Regifting property to multiple people or while retaining it, not OK. You could argue that regifting is depriving artists, but it is terrible argument because property is generally allowed to be redistributed without the original creator's consent.
Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by summerdown2 on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @02:31PM (#5135753)
If digital files are property, why can't I resell them?
Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by Kylekramer on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @08:23PM (#5137539)
I don't see how my comment says you can't. I just don't think you can resell them to multiple people or resell them while keeping the property.
Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by summerdown2 on Thursday January 31, 2013 @06:21PM (#5148143)
My intention was to point out a current difficulty with digital files, which is that they are legally stuck half way between property and license. You used the word property as if it was assumed, which struck me as odd, because to me they don't feel like property.

My comment was trying to point out that if we really tried to view digital files as property we get into problematic territory. For example: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19842851

A lot of the language around digital rights issues seems to me to be loaded. The use of theft to refer to copyright or even the words Intellectual Property, begs the question of an argument not yet proven. Eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Intellectual_Prope...

Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by offdrey on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @06:04AM (#5133323)
More like te guy who stole from recording/motion studios. There is a difference
Re:Pirate Bay Founder Could Be Prosecuted For Hacking “Withi... by Executor on Wednesday January 30, 2013 @08:46AM (#5139410)
Copying/sharing not stealing.