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Re:Why You Truly Never Leave High School by unimpressive on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @12:16AM (#5132471)
My previous post: [0]

As somebody who interacts with high schoolers on a regular basis, I attribute their nastiness to the snowball effect.

They can't read long form information because they didn't want to before high school. Now they can't without a great exertion of effort.

They can't write because they don't read, which is where it is easiest to learn new words.

They think social studies is boring because it's a lot of reading and writing. That the class usually focuses on stuff that happened too long ago to be visible in their lives doesn't help.

They don't understand mathematics because their earlier instructors taught it as algorithms without context, the beautiful axiomatic nature of mathematics is never revealed.

By contrast, everyone can do PE. Even kids who stay indoors a little too long, slowly giving themselves radon induced lung cancer. If you're good enough, you can even get a scholarship to play on a college team.

It's no wonder in most schools so much emphasis is put on sports games.

So what do you get when you have a bunch of illiterate teenage prisoners in a room trying to read Shakespeare?

About the same thing you get when you have a thousand monkeys try to write it.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5125650

Re:Why You Truly Never Leave High School by entropy_ on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @05:40AM (#5133284)
The emphasis on sports in US high schools has nothing to do with the fact that everyone can do it and everything to do with the entertainment industry built around sports in the US. The fact that you can get a scholarship to college just for playing sports well is a symptom of that.

I live in a country where sports aren't as watched or cared about as in the US. And if they are it's other countries playing it(like the world cup/champions league/eurocup in soccer). But the whole not being able to read/write well and not liking mathematics thing holds just the same here as it does in the states. However, people don't turn to sports to derive social status(we do have your equivalent of "the popular kids" but they aren't "jocks"). Furthermore, I know of no school that puts almost any kind of real emphasis on sports.

I think by far the biggest reason so much emphasis is put on sports in US high schools is precisely because of the importance sports holds in overall American culture due to the entire entertainment industry built around it. Not the other way around.

Re:Why You Truly Never Leave High School by cpursley on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @07:09AM (#5133539)
Please tell me this magical place where people aren't obsessed with watching sports (playing themselves is fine). My passort is in hand :)

I completely agree. Athletics should be decoupled from public schools - K-12 and public universities. As someone who attended public school in the US, and who's wife currently teaches at a public school, I can say with certainty that these places are just training camps for the best athletes. In the place I currently live, the adults speak of their children always in the context of how good they are at a particular sport - never about academics or other achievements. For the parents, a child who's a good athlete is the same as winning the lottery.

Re:Why You Truly Never Leave High School by henrikschroder on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @07:56AM (#5133692)
Where I am, in Scandinavia, and I think also in most of continental Europe, sports are decoupled from the schools. You don't have school teams or schools competing against each other, instead various junior sports teams are simply local and geographical, drawing kids from surrounding schools.

And junior sports activites are completely extra-curricular. A local team might have its activities at a single school, so as a student you might have your after-school basketball at your school, or another school, it all depends. You still have a lot of people watching professional sports, and working their way up through junior sports, but the "high-school jock" cliché simply does not exist.

And, consequently, athletic proficiency isn't mixed with academic proficiency, the school doesn't care about how good a student is at basketball or football or whatever, that's completely outside its interests. And academic scholarships based on athletic skill is unheard of. (Then again, scholarships are pretty unheard of, university education is free... :) )

Re:Why You Truly Never Leave High School by bps4484 on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @07:14PM (#5137293)
If the social structure of high schoolers in Scandinavia isn't related to sports, what are the attributes which dictate where you rank socially?
Re:Why You Truly Never Leave High School by henrikschroder on Wednesday January 30, 2013 @10:01AM (#5139738)
It's a subjective popularity contest, much like high-schools everywhere. Dress "right", talk "right", listen to the "right" music, be attractive, and pretend to be confident.
Re:Why You Truly Never Leave High School by aswanson on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @10:03PM (#5137809)
I think sports are the principal reasons classes start so early in high school in the u.s. i recall shuddering under heavy rainfall in the early a.m. hours waiting for a bus to pick me up, barely conscious, staggering into a "homeroom". By the time I woke up, it was time to go home. Most kids stayed after for 6 or 7 hours practicing sports they'd never have the slightest chance of competing in beyond high school.
Re:Why You Truly Never Leave High School by entropy_ on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @09:53AM (#5134256)
Well, I live in Lebanon. Very far from being a magical place. Instead of being obsessed with sports, people are obsessed with politics. And not in a good way. It's all sectarian, religiously racist bullshit.

But if you do decide to visit, let me know and I'll show you around :-p

Re:Why You Truly Never Leave High School by cpursley on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @09:59AM (#5134305)
Hey, sounds good. I'd like to visit that region - especially love the food.

On other other hand - I guess sports is a distraction from politics and disagreement - a proxy war if you will. But watching others play is entirely different than getting out on the field.

Re:Why You Truly Never Leave High School by entropy_ on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @11:15AM (#5134730)
Well, if you are interested in visiting the area then I would definitely recommend Lebanon(I'm obviously biased, but still). Most people speak English or at least understand it, though fluency does vary quite a bit. So you shouldn't have too much trouble talking to people even if you don't speak Arabic. And we have really good weather for most of the year though it can get very hot and humid in the summer.

If all you know about this place is gleaned from the news it sounds like a warzone but it really isn't, and there's usually quite a bit of warning before anything security-compromising happens -- With the exception of the 2006 war with Israel, that was quite sudden. But relatively few areas were affected.

As long as you stay away from Hezbollah-controlled territory(The deep south, the bekaa valley and the souther suburbs/ghetto of Beirut) you won't get kidnapped or anything like that :P

If you do take a leap, shoot me an email(in profile) and I'd be more than happy to assist :-)

Re:Why You Truly Never Leave High School by fghh45sdfhr3 on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @10:01AM (#5134325)
Please tell me this magical place where people aren't obsessed with watching sports

Soccer is a religion in Europe (and most of the rest of the world) but no one gets into a university in Europe only thanks to their soccer skills.

Re:Why You Truly Never Leave High School by peter_l_downs on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @12:44AM (#5132570)
Speaking as one of "they", I'd just like to point out that these are all generalizations. Not every highschool is full of students like those described above.
Re:Why You Truly Never Leave High School by unimpressive on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @01:47AM (#5132737)
Most any statement made about any large group of people is a generalization.

The truth of the matter is, you're in good company. [0]

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4327297

Re:Why You Truly Never Leave High School by derleth on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @04:30AM (#5133095)
Every one of these things applies about as well to adults, in my experience, at whatever age cutoff you use to define the word 'adult'.

Especially this one:

> They don't understand mathematics because their earlier instructors taught it as algorithms without context, the beautiful axiomatic nature of mathematics is never revealed.

And, in my experience, this is incomplete at best:

> They can't write because they don't read, which is where it is easiest to learn new words.

Learning new words is a small part of why reading is essential to writing. Most of it is learning new sentence and paragraph structures, which mirrors the new structures of thought required to compose those kinds of linguistic structures in the first place. Hemingway is an extreme example: You won't learn a lot of interesting new words reading his works, but you'll learn a lot about how to structure ideas.

Re:Why You Truly Never Leave High School by unimpressive on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @09:55AM (#5134265)
I know.

Conveying that amount of nuance in your second point would have destroyed my flow.

The sports thing was a wrong statement caused by the process of writing a comment as opposed to a blog post. (Ex: Fire and forget)

I may or may not have written that while on Valium, can't remember. I saw the flaws when I copy pasted but felt it would be somehow improper to rewrite the post.