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Re:Unlocking Cellphones Becomes Illegal Saturday in the U.S. by pkteison on Thursday January 24, 2013 @12:01PM (#5110597)
I don't think this falls under your principle. I'm all about the doctrine of first sale, but this isn't a simple retail transaction where I fork over a sum of cash for a finished product and that's it. I paid for half a phone, my cell provider paid for the other half, and I have contracted to tie this phone to their service for two years in exchange for them shelling out that $300 up front. Once the two years are up they should be legally required to unlock it, but during the contract period it seems reasonable to keep me from taking full ownership of something that I don't yet fully own.

"You can also pay full-price for a phone, not the discounted price that comes with a two-year service contract, to receive the device unlocked from the get-go." - if the full price phone was locked, your principle would certainly apply, but it isn't, so I don't think it does.

Re:Unlocking Cellphones Becomes Illegal Saturday in the U.S. by roc on Thursday January 24, 2013 @12:27PM (#5110779)
Except that unlocking the phone doesn't free anyone from fulfilling their side of the original contract. So network interests in recapturing their subsidies don't even enter into it.

If I buy an iPhone 5 from ATT and unlock it, even if I pay for a Straight Talk SIM and use that from time to time, I'm still on the hook to pay AT&T whatever monthly fee the contract obligates me to pay.

The only reason AT&T would want me to not unlock my phone, is to ensure they have a captive market for further services that are not part of the contract. Be they usage overages, international roaming, etc.

They'd like my $70/mo for a base smartphone package (with an absurd early termination fee to boot) and to not have to compete for any additional or international service I may need.

Now you can certainly argue that that's a consideration people are willingly agreeing to when they agree to buy subsidized phones on contract. But the argument is that it's a consideration that ought to be explicitly spelled out in the contract terms, rather than enforced by an end-run through copyright law that most people don't know about and have no reason to believe holds any bearing over how they use a device they're paying for.

Re:Unlocking Cellphones Becomes Illegal Saturday in the U.S. by therandomguy on Thursday January 24, 2013 @01:19PM (#5111122)
"Except that unlocking the phone doesn't free anyone from fulfilling their side of the original contract"... it does, the contract now says that you can't unlock the phone. If you do you break the contract.
Re:Unlocking Cellphones Becomes Illegal Saturday in the U.S. by roc on Thursday January 24, 2013 @01:35PM (#5111215)
I thought it was pretty clear that I was speaking in the context of the parent post, about the financial terms of the contract and whether it was reasonable for a network to lock a phone to ensure they recouped their subsidy.

Also, the contract doesn't say anything about (un)locking the phone. An unaccountable executive reading of a largely-obscure copyright law is the only thing saying it. And it isn't being termed a violation of the contract, it's being termed a violation of the law.

The fact that the 'lock' consideration and implications aren't explicitly in the contract is rather the point.

Re:Unlocking Cellphones Becomes Illegal Saturday in the U.S. by therandomguy on Thursday January 24, 2013 @02:03PM (#5111409)
Okay... but I still don't understand your point. You are saying that the contract exists so that telcos can push additional services (over limits, roaming etc.). But there is also an unlocked option. Are you saying that people are not aware of unlocked full-price option? Even if they are not there is an option to buy out the contract any time. And it appears completely reasonable comparing it with original costs. Here is from AT&T: $325 minus $10 for each full month of completed Service Commitment. I would like to know why you think AT&T is ripping people off.
Re:Unlocking Cellphones Becomes Illegal Saturday in the U.S. by roc on Thursday January 24, 2013 @03:36PM (#5112047)
I would like to know why you think I believe AT&T is ripping people off.

Is it that since I think the situation is wrong that I must necessarily think the party that currently stands to benefit is necessarily evil or shafting the other side?

Or is it simply that: because I disagree with you, you assume I hold every position you also disagree with?

I'm sorry, but either of those is simply wrong.

My objection is that an appointed executive can so massively alter the effective terms of private contracts without those terms, or even the law's relevance, ever being reflected in those contracts.

If the 'lock' term was in the contract, I'd be fine with it. I think many people are, in fact, well served by subsidized phones, even when/if they come with 'carrier lock' provisions.

As a minor related concern, I think the situation is worthy of perhaps more-zealous scrutiny, because of the effective duopoly.

Given these terms aren't in the contracts, along with the duopoly's refusal to offer a "byo" phone plan with prices (and early termination fees) that reflect the lack of any subsidy that needs to be recovered, the expected and observed effect is a large distortion in the market toward subsidized phones.

Again, not because I think no-one should buy subsidized phones or they're some sort of 'rip-off', but because I think it's wrong and anti-competitive for the market to warp the cost-benefit of subsidized vs byo.

And having to pay for a subsidy you're not receiving is a very large distortion. Particularly in those places in the US where alternate carriers don't have viable coverage.

Though I'm hopeful the Straight Talk/Walmart partnership bears fruit and begets a trend, so that whole part becomes moot.

Re:Unlocking Cellphones Becomes Illegal Saturday in the U.S. by therandomguy on Thursday January 24, 2013 @04:27PM (#5112341)
Fair enough. I wrongly assumed that you are out with the pitchfork.
Re:Unlocking Cellphones Becomes Illegal Saturday in the U.S. by mtinkerhess on Thursday January 24, 2013 @12:22PM (#5110729)
But you do fully own the phone, even if you're on a contract. It's not like a mortgage or a car loan; the phone company doesn't have a lien on your phone. The penalty for breaking the contract isn't to give the phone back--it's to pay a termination fee.
Re:Unlocking Cellphones Becomes Illegal Saturday in the U.S. by dedward on Saturday January 26, 2013 @09:57AM (#5120473)
This, specifically. If they want to deal with ownership do some kind of leasing agreement... otherwise, let's not have public enforcement propping up the business model.
Re:Unlocking Cellphones Becomes Illegal Saturday in the U.S. by Nursie on Thursday January 24, 2013 @01:08PM (#5111056)
You do have a point, but it's not like unlocking the phone gets you out of paying your monthly fees. Hell, they should encourage it because they'd still get your subscription fee and you might not even use their service!
Re:Unlocking Cellphones Becomes Illegal Saturday in the U.S. by linh on Thursday January 24, 2013 @12:18PM (#5110708)
I don' think that's what the article is about. If you break the contract you'll have to pay a terminal fee anyway.
Re:Unlocking Cellphones Becomes Illegal Saturday in the U.S. by baudehlo on Thursday January 24, 2013 @12:14PM (#5110676)
I know that here in Canada, even if you buy an iPhone full price from anyone but Apple, it is locked to that vendor. Which seems ludicrous to me.
Re:Unlocking Cellphones Becomes Illegal Saturday in the U.S. by sareon on Thursday January 24, 2013 @03:43PM (#5112082)
I thought the newest bill (related to technology, pirating, etc) here in Canada made it legal for Canadians to be allowed to unlock their phones and made it illegal for companies to tie one device to one company.