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Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by georgeecollins on Saturday November 14, 2026 @08:33AM (#50496898)
When you go into a Ford dealership there is a good chance that you will buy your truck with a loan from Ford credit. That probably helps keep the price of Ford trucks high and Ford makes a lot from loans. And there are problems today with vehicles being repossessed too much because of the long loan terms.

‘Circular financing’ sounds sinister but customer financing and vertical investments aren’t strange or uncommon. It could be bad for sure. But it is not like they invented a new form of wickedness.

Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by mattbrewsbytes on Saturday November 14, 2026 @09:04AM (#50497114)
Its not that circular financing is sinister or illegal, its that its very risky. If the startups that are purchasing the product are also getting a loan from the company making the product and that loan is also backed by that same company then if that startup is unprofitable and has massive debt at interest rates like 15% or has near junk bond ratings then the company that built, financed and backed the products is on the hook for it all.

Sure they have customers pounding at their door for more product. At some point the hype machine stops and new neocloud startups can't get funding because its too expensive or banks don't trust them. Then what happens? The circular financing starts to unwind itself and NVidia is the "bag holder". If you look up Lucent or Nortel this happened to them during the dot com boom. There is a positive difference here with NVidia, they have so much demand and usage this can probably go on for a while. Lucent and Nortel were bit by dark fiber and the usage/demand just wasn't there.

If Jensen at the helm of NVidia is bullying/convincing companies into purchasing more than they need, financing it, etc. and creating the hype machine himself and NewCEO ain't going to play that game, then it could be an end to the circular financing.

Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by 5555watch on Saturday November 14, 2026 @10:03AM (#50497583)
I haven't checked what companies exactly are they funding, but IMO that's the easiest way for Nvidia to have a high stake at a real future competitor for OAI or Anthropic, in whatever form, new proprietary or open sourced models. Besides the training data, compute is the biggest barrier to entry to this market. So bet on a few talented teams, give the tools, and see what happens..
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by caminante on Saturday November 14, 2026 @11:58AM (#50498546)
> I haven't checked what companies exactly are they funding

Parent said "startups".

It is easy, but closer to "going to the gas station and buying lottery tickets"-easy.

Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by evrydayhustling on Saturday November 14, 2026 @11:48AM (#50498454)
NVidia was financing up to about 25% of purchases -- less than its margin. It's true this might be more risky than other sales strategies, but not enough to create a moral hazard of selling oversubsidized deals.
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by georgeecollins on Saturday November 14, 2026 @02:15PM (#50499871)
I agree with you completely and this is the real problem. Somewhere people were accusing them of accounting fraud, or this is because of the perils of effective altruism, or .. pick you poison. Capitalism is a great system but it carries within it the seeds of its own destruction.
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by malfist on Saturday November 14, 2026 @09:06AM (#50497138)
It's not uncommon for dealer financing to be a loss leader. I've never used dealer financing that wasn't below 2% APR
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by jasode on Saturday November 14, 2026 @09:22AM (#50497242)
>dealer financing to be a loss leader.

"dealer financing" is an umbrella term for the dealer's finance office acting as a "loan broker" and shop around the customer's credit profile to find any bank willing to lend the money. The eventual underwriter for the loan may be the auto manufacturer's finance arm (e.g. General Motors Financial subsidiary or Toyota Motor Credit, etc) ... or ... it may be a non-automaker bank such as Chase or Capital One. Whichever one the customer ends up with depends on the particular credit score.

None of those financial entities are making car loans as a "loss leader". It's the reverse situation where both the dealer and the underwriting bank make money and the interest rates are high enough such that the banks pay kickback commissions to the dealer for funneling the loan to them.

Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by drdec on Saturday November 14, 2026 @09:46AM (#50497446)
> Interest rates (such as "0% APR") that are artificially lower than prevailing market rates means the missing extra interest is embedded in the sales amount in the form of a higher price. TNSTAAFL.

A more accurate way of saying this is that the dealer is using incentive money to buy points (as is available in the mortgage market). You can ask dealer to apply that to the price of the vehicle instead. Many dealers already offer that kind of choice in their advertisements already (cash bank or no interest financing). Which way works out better for you depends on the terms of the loan etc. It's all the same to the dealer though.

Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by sgerenser on Saturday November 14, 2026 @10:56AM (#50498036)
With below-market interest rates (0%, 1.99%, etc.) it’s almost always the manufacturer that is buying the points (if you want to look at it that way), not the dealer. Therefore, the dealer has no incentive to give you a cash discount in lieu of the lower rate, unless the manufacturer itself offers that trade off (which as pointed out, they sometimes do, but often do not).
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by b112 on Saturday November 14, 2026 @11:40AM (#50498385)
This is a good sub thread for a lot of people buying a car, who haven't before.

Another trick in the industry, is the "price the dealer pays". This is mischievous, as the dealer does indeed pay that price for the car. However, they receive incentives quite often, in terms of kickbacks for sales made. So they dealer can gleefully say "This is what we paid for the car", whilst in parallel not indicate "Well, we received $5k as a kickback from the manufacturer later".

The manufacturer often also has monthly blitzes, discounts of the month, which the dealer will not really inform you of. After all, that's extra profit if they can trick you into paying full price.

In the early days of the internet, there used to be excellent services to discover all the discounts the dealers had, so you could a proper assessment of their actual cost. Thus, you'd be able to haggle with both eyes open.

For Canadians, The Automobile Protection Association (APA), https://apa.ca/ is legit, and offers such a service for a fee. Not sure what Americans might have. Or who to trust there.

Knowing what the car actually costs the dealer, is immense power when negotiating.

Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by drdec on Saturday November 14, 2026 @03:15PM (#50500381)
Yes the incentives I mentioned come from the manufacturer. My experience has been it's cash back (to the buyer via the incentive) or the special finance rate. For my last loan it worked out better to take the cash back so that's what I did.
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by sgerenser on Saturday November 14, 2026 @04:07PM (#50500829)
Sure, but that's actually not necessarily the norm. Or even when a cash option is offered, its much less than the value of the below-market financing (like $1K-$2K vs. a 3% below market interest rate on a $50K car which is worth closer to $4K).
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by threetonesun on Saturday November 14, 2026 @12:09PM (#50498644)
Dealer margins on initial sales aren't huge, usually, and there are times when 0% financing is simply a way to get things off of lots even at a loss so a car with better margins can replace it, but either way dealers don't really care because the margins on service are massive.
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by georgeecollins on Saturday November 14, 2026 @02:26PM (#50499969)
It's very uncommon for car and truck loans in the USA to be a loss leader.
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by jgalt212 on Saturday November 14, 2026 @09:36AM (#50497348)
Ford is lending money to people with jobs and credit history--startups don't have the business equivalent of either. One can also argue that while the collateral (cars) does depreciate, they'd don't depreciate as quickly as GPUs.
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by bethekidyouwant on Saturday November 14, 2026 @10:50AM (#50497977)
Gpus stopped depreciating
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by natebc on Saturday November 14, 2026 @11:25AM (#50498268)
The 5090 I bought almost 2 years ago for 2k sold this fall for 9k. stopped depreciating indeed.
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by jgalt212 on Saturday November 14, 2026 @01:12PM (#50499299)
Very true. I wonder if that's the case for data center cards running 24 / 7.
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by jimnotgym on Saturday November 14, 2026 @09:42AM (#50497397)
Except, Ford is probably just a middleman, those loans are probably resold immediately to a financial institution, so it's not Ford's money. Then there is the lower portfolio risk. Thousands of customer owing 50 thousand bucks is not the same a 5 customers owing a billion bucks
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by reg_dunlop on Saturday November 14, 2026 @11:46AM (#50498431)
While your explanation of in-house financing for cars is correct, that's not what the article and original title of this HN post is describing.

In your example, random customers are shopping at Ford.

In the article, Nvidia is creating the customers, and those customers are then engaging in the scenario you described with the automobile financing.

Nvidia is doing what you describe...plus they're artificially creating the customers who are buying from them, to make other customers want to buy from them.

So it's everything you describe plus a whole additional abstraction of AI...artificially in-demand

Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by sozforex on Saturday November 14, 2026 @11:57AM (#50498536)
Sounds a bit analogous to advertising [creating customers]
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by reg_dunlop on Saturday November 14, 2026 @11:59AM (#50498557)
Sure, if running an advertising campaign resulted in new human beings (who previously did not exist) with new bank accounts and new credit cards to buy the advertised product.
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by georgeecollins on Saturday November 14, 2026 @02:24PM (#50499958)
Literal bot has entered the room. I have a fast food chain. I give an applicant a loan to start their franchise, which wouldn't exist if I didn't offer that financing. The franchise is a customer of the chain and wouldn't exist without the loan. New franchises make other potential franchise owners consider working with that chain. That also happens and it is neither illegal nor immoral.

Not saying its good! Just OK under US law and sometimes help companies grow.

I think what makes this tough to be objective about is there is so much about this that is tied to things people hate: AI, tech, obscene wealth, poor regulation. I 100% agree but I do doubt the demand for AI is artificial.

Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by blihp on Saturday November 14, 2026 @12:33PM (#50498922)
Ford Credit is transparent about having financed the sale, nVidia books it all as sales (i.e. as if the customer had the money to buy the product) and is very quiet about how their 'investments' in the customer are actually financing it. It all looks good on paper until the music for this little dance stops.
Re:Nvidia Allegedly Engineered Scarcity by Funding AI Startu... by georgeecollins on Saturday November 14, 2026 @02:28PM (#50499985)
That's a fair point and also a concern for SPVs at public companies. I would vote for tougher accounting regulation of things that are effectively on your balance sheet.