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Re:RealPage rent-pricing case wraps with nearly $360M to ren... by markasoftware on Saturday November 07, 2026 @12:41AM (#50401970)
Reminds me of the extremely interesting paper https://arxiv.org/abs/1904.05234 Flash Boys 2.0

Basically when somebody makes a pricing error on a decentralized cryptocurrency exchange there's a mob of automated arbitrage bots that try to trade against it. Who wins and actually gets to make the trade is mainly determined by how high of a transaction fee your bot is willing to pay.

You can win instantly by offering to trade with a transaction fee so high it almost wipes out all but a cent or two of the entire arbitrage profits, because nobody else will pay a higher fee.

Instead what happens is bots offer the lowest possible fee, then immediately increase their fee as soon as they see a competing bot try to take the trade with a higher fee. This results in the bot offering the highest fee changing every several milliseconds as the fee quickly grows.

The way Ethereum mining works, this results in the winning bot being randomly selected from among the set of bots "bidding" up the transaction fee: blocks are mined at random intervals of iirc about 20 seconds, and whoever had the highest bid at the time the next block is mined wins. <20 seconds of bidding is short enough that even with the bidding, the transaction fee doesn't get bid up particularly high, and the winner makes out with a highly profitable arbitrage trade.

By giving up a guaranteed win and instead rolling the dice against other bots, transaction fees stay low and everyone has a higher expected profit. It's coordination that happens without any communication between the participants and quite possibly the participants didn't realize they were in effect cooperating when they added the high speed bidding behavior to their bots.

Re:RealPage rent-pricing case wraps with nearly $360M to ren... by JumpCrisscross on Saturday November 07, 2026 @02:50AM (#50402546)
> You can win instantly by offering to trade with a transaction fee so high it almost wipes out all but a cent or two of the entire arbitrage profits, because nobody else will pay a higher fee

This is like 1980s sawtooth algos in real finance.

A lot of crypto is former HF folks taking old strategies to a dumber field.

Re:RealPage rent-pricing case wraps with nearly $360M to ren... by consensus1 on Saturday November 07, 2026 @06:23AM (#50403564)
I have really enjoyed watching crypto act like they are white knights against the evil traditional financial system and then go on to reinvent it piece by piece.
Re:RealPage rent-pricing case wraps with nearly $360M to ren... by 59percentmore on Saturday November 07, 2026 @08:02AM (#50404211)
You're assuming that the contention was with the functionality and not with who controlled it.
Re:RealPage rent-pricing case wraps with nearly $360M to ren... by mrtesthah on Saturday November 07, 2026 @10:40AM (#50405459)
The current players in crypto are the same people. And there’s noting systematic about crypto that changes this — people with money can afford to buy more mining capacity or stake more coins.
Re:RealPage rent-pricing case wraps with nearly $360M to ren... by 59percentmore on Sunday November 08, 2026 @07:22AM (#50412658)
Yes, incumbents warped the original intentions, it's true. Famously, Bitcoin was coopted and the originally intended functionality only lived on in the Bitcoin Cash fork. Cryptocurrency was supposed to be a way to transact without touching the banking system, but banksters realized that it could be an unregulated vehicle for their financial shenanigans. I don't know how you might have guarded against that sort of attack - capitalism being about commodification at a fundamental level - but, "It was always a fox house!" is incorrect.
Re:RealPage rent-pricing case wraps with nearly $360M to ren... by lotsofpulp on Saturday November 07, 2026 @09:17AM (#50404740)
There’s nothing evil about aiming to earn a penny or a fraction of a penny on a transaction.
Re:RealPage rent-pricing case wraps with nearly $360M to ren... by malfist on Saturday November 07, 2026 @10:34AM (#50405414)
Who pays that penny?
Re:RealPage rent-pricing case wraps with nearly $360M to ren... by lotsofpulp on Saturday November 07, 2026 @10:37AM (#50405441)
Whoever wants to pay an extra penny. Like any other transaction.
Re:RealPage rent-pricing case wraps with nearly $360M to ren... by JumpCrisscross on Saturday November 07, 2026 @02:49PM (#50407443)
There is something evil, however, about scaremongering around fractions of a penny to convince folks to move money to one where the spread is several percent.
Re:RealPage rent-pricing case wraps with nearly $360M to ren... by sandworm101 on Saturday November 07, 2026 @07:36AM (#50404026)
That isnt cooperation. That is basic market principals in action. Bid and counter bids that whittle down the profit margin based on willingness to risk a win/loss? These are auction principals as old as time. This is reaction rather than cooperation.
Re:RealPage rent-pricing case wraps with nearly $360M to ren... by markasoftware on Saturday November 07, 2026 @03:23PM (#50407713)
The winner of the auction is not based on "willingness to risk a win/loss". The auction always ends at an absurdly low price because of the mechanics of the bidding, none of the participants ever drop out, because the price never goes above what they're willing to pay. Please read my comment or the paper again, this is not like an ebay auction at all.

For example, imagine a car auction that lasts only 20 seconds, with a random delay of up to 1 second, and with a very small minimum bid increment, say 2 cents, and no bidding fee or limit on number of bids. Now image 5 different people each outbidding each other by the minimum bid increment every 10 milliseconds. The price will climb by about $2/second, so by the end of auction, the winner will get the car for $40. Because everyone's bidding so fast, and nobody knows exactly when the auction will end, the winner is effectively random. At least on an expected value basis, this is highly beneficial to the participants vs actually bidding up to the true price of the car until other participants are not willing to bid anymore.

Re:RealPage rent-pricing case wraps with nearly $360M to ren... by omgwtfbyobbq on Sunday November 08, 2026 @02:48PM (#50416458)
That sounds economically rational to me.

I think a comparable situation would be if everyone bid up to or higher than the actual price to generally support it.

They would be acting economically irrational in that situation to increase price overall, like corporate land lords refusing to lower prices even if it means they have higher than normal vacancy rates.