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Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by Morromist on Sunday November 01, 2026 @03:18PM (#50329337)
"For most companies, trading some caution for speed is a reasonable call. Proton is a privacy company, though, and what its users pay for is the confidence that the people building it are careful. Shipping slowly and carefully is part of what they’re selling"

This is the core of it for me. There are many, maaany companies that don't want to be what they are. For example: Meta doesn't want to be a social media company - so it lets facebook rot, makes 10% of its total revenue from scammers advertising to its customers, which seem to mostly be vulnerable old people and focuses on VR and AI.

I guess Proton is having that same problem. I don't really want to be part of that though.

Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by gruez on Sunday November 01, 2026 @03:23PM (#50329401)
>Meta doesn't want to be a social media company - so it lets facebook rot, makes 10% of its total revenue from scammers advertising to its customers, which seem to mostly be vulnerable old people and focuses on VR and AI.

Are you just going to ignore the rest of advertising that isn't "scammers advertising to its customers", and makes up the overwhelming majority of their revenue?

Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by odo1242 on Sunday November 01, 2026 @04:12PM (#50329947)
Increasingly whenever I see a product advertised, I look around a bit and find a better, cheaper product that wasn’t advertised as heavily. Almost to the point where excessive advertising makes me suspect the product.
Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by Morromist on Sunday November 01, 2026 @03:50PM (#50329732)
If you think meta is doing a great job with facebook another example could be Gamestop - which wants to be Ebay for some reason. Tesla wants to build robots now instead of making cars. Supposidly Dunkin' Donuts really wants to be a coffeeshop so they rebranded to Dunkin' and tried to shift that way.
Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by red-iron-pine on Monday November 02, 2026 @09:07AM (#50336989)
companies have no other raison d'être other than providing value for shareholders.

specifics are not relevant in many cases. capitalism does not care.

Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by EA-3167 on Sunday November 01, 2026 @03:32PM (#50329505)
Speaking personally and on behalf of everyone using Ad Blockers: No. That bridge was burned ages ago.
Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by vrganj on Sunday November 01, 2026 @03:52PM (#50329756)
Any advertising is a net-bad for the world.

It definitionally manipulates people into buying stuff they didn't want before, leaving them poorer and our world devoid of more resources.

Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by tomrod on Sunday November 01, 2026 @04:07PM (#50329897)
No, I disagree. I'm a strong cynic of advertising returns generally. However, basic notification that something exists brings business.

This applies to the mom-and-pop selling something around the corner, not Coca-Cola. For Coca-Cola, their advertising money likely has negative returns at the scale they spend it.

Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by vrganj on Sunday November 01, 2026 @04:08PM (#50329921)
If a mom and pop shop opens around the corner, people generally notice organically.

If it's good, their friends may even tell them about it.

Why does it need a whole manipulative extraction industry around it?

Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by tomrod on Sunday November 01, 2026 @07:44PM (#50331614)
> Why does it need a whole manipulative extraction industry around it?

It doesn't, especially at the aggregate scale it is at!

Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by crtified on Sunday November 01, 2026 @04:48PM (#50330247)
> basic notification that something exists brings business

That's an abstraction, though. The real-world logic behind that statement is that by bringing net benefit to The Whole (through your chosen acts), you will be duly recognised as a contributor of value, and accordingly you will be busy.

The way that modern formal terminology (like Notification Brings Business) has become a set of self-standing tenets in its own right has let humanity forget that our entire motivation for this whole practice of being busy ("busi-ness") is to make everybody happier. Preferably by doing things that don't suck.

Not to 'Maximise Our Business'.

Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by tomrod on Sunday November 01, 2026 @05:08PM (#50330440)
What do you mean by "real world logic"? Observed behavior, logical abstraction, or handwavy ivorytoweredness?
Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by crtified on Monday November 02, 2026 @07:25AM (#50335907)
What do you think "business" means?
Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by tomrod on Monday November 02, 2026 @07:43AM (#50336072)
Based on your prior comment, I think you mean "effort taken for delivery" in an abstract way. I think that is part of it, but "increased revenue through additional or higher value transactions" is what I think about when I say "increase in business." This is something that can be affected by the true sense of advertising - giving notice about your business - but has diminishing marginal returns.
Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by crtified on Monday November 02, 2026 @02:32PM (#50342359)
Advertising is an economy of scale.

You give notice about your business, but it only becomes advertising by virtue of the socialised energy expenditure it takes to process the unsolicited imposition en-masse. Thus it is an economy of scale, leveraged by a singular entity.

Conceptually we might look at the simple Market Hawker. He finds that changing the environment to impose his message at scale (by loudly shouting at 30-second intervals) increases his revenue.

Abstracting that core mechanism of advertising into business jargon allows us to frame it as "giving notice about our business to increase revenue with more or bigger transactions". Nothing about that statement is false, after all. So a completely true balance sheet of the advertising proves that "Costs = I Shout, Revenue = Business Is Good". Pretty good deal. Really good deal, once the scale rides up, and he has a loudly-shouting-man installed at every corner.

Business balance sheet is very good, now. Revenue = Business_Is_Good x 500, Costs = 500 Men Shout. This is a very beneficial abstraction indeed. Formally omitting the scaled social and environmental costs of our business advertising by simply not including the vocabulary for those things makes it a wonderful revenue-increasing tool.

Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by nlitened on Sunday November 01, 2026 @04:05PM (#50329881)
This is bullshit. How would people know that a new cafe has opened without advertising? Those greedy baristas and bakers, trying to leave poor customers poorer for enjoying a morning coffee with croissant.
Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by salawat on Sunday November 01, 2026 @04:09PM (#50329923)
Implying even having the budget for prolific advertising isn't a signal that something is already on the value extraction slide.
Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by vrganj on Sunday November 01, 2026 @04:07PM (#50329895)
By talking to their neighbors? By walking past it?

What are you talking about??

Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by tomrod on Sunday November 01, 2026 @04:08PM (#50329915)
The cafe putting up a sign, hours, and a menu in the window are forms of advertising. Based on your other comment, I suspect you are painting with a brush of "all" when you mean digital advertising or targeted digital advertising.
Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by vrganj on Sunday November 01, 2026 @04:11PM (#50329941)
I think if you extend it to be that broad, then sure, those specific examples are fine and exempt from my above statement.

But offline advertising generally isn't exempt. Screw billboards cluttering up cities. Screw flyers cluttering up my mailbox. Screw print ads cluttering up magazines.

It's all an assault on the senses in service of extraction. It's a non-consensual invasion of the mind.

Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by tomrod on Sunday November 01, 2026 @05:07PM (#50330428)
While we are approaching this with different modes, we broadly agree that advertising is cognitive pollution.
Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by jemmyw on Monday November 02, 2026 @01:43AM (#50333792)
I don't think I've ever seen an advert for a cafe and then gone to that cafe. I guess the listings on Google maps might be counted as an ad, but I've ended up adding plenty of cafe's to maps after visiting so I don't know if those entries are added by the businesses or by customers.
Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by tomrod on Monday November 02, 2026 @07:46AM (#50336096)
In the pure economics/marketing sense, a Google Maps listing is an advertisement.

I expect for most people that these forms of advertising - directory listings, basic notifications, etc. - aren't a level of cognitive pollution that they notice vs. overly bright billboards, banner ads, search injects, or LLM-injected marginally relevant sources.

Re:It wasn't AI that flipped Proton's charge by vrganj on Monday November 02, 2026 @08:53AM (#50336817)
Yes, I see what you're getting at, and those aren't really what I take issue with.

I think generally, the issue is around consent and who initiates the information transfer. If I'm actively looking for something, a listing of options is useful. If I look at a shop window, I am actively looking to see what the shop is selling.

It's the non-consensual invasion of my mental space I take issue with. It's like somebody violently shaking you going "BUY BUY BUY".