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Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by shrubby on Thursday August 27, 2026 @03:32AM (#49461195)
Yes.

Aleksey Yurchak coined a term Hupernormalisation and it works here too.

We know the reality, yet leaders keep telling us via TV, social media... that everything is fine.

We know that they know that we know.

Fake world? Matrix? Escape from the freedom?

Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by O-K on Thursday August 27, 2026 @04:18AM (#49461533)
There’s a great doc by Adam Curtis about HyperNormalisation

https://youtu.be/Gr7T07WfIhM

From wiki:

It argues that following the global economic crises of the 1970s, governments, financiers and technological utopians gave up on trying to shape the complex "real world" and instead established a simpler "fake world" for the benefit of multi-national corporations that is kept stable by neoliberal governments

Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by jack_riminton on Thursday August 27, 2026 @05:00AM (#49461819)
Reminds me of Plato's Allegory of the Cave

So I don't think it'a new thing, but maybe it's getting worse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by gizajob on Thursday August 27, 2026 @06:41AM (#49462618)
Baudrillard restated, as a cause rather than an effect.
Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by _bernd on Thursday August 27, 2026 @08:03AM (#49463390)
I can highly recommend "the agony of the real" if you haven't read it yet :)
Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by shrubby on Thursday August 27, 2026 @05:44AM (#49462142)
Yes, it's awesome and exactly what I had in mind.

The century of the self must be recommended also.

Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by srean on Thursday August 27, 2026 @04:35AM (#49461654)
> yet leaders keep telling us via TV, social media... that everything is fine.

How else will they make easy money from illegal and unsafe constructions.

There is always the "it was the will of god" excuse.

This will continue till we wisen up and elect the right people, select the right people.

Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by DoctorOetker on Thursday August 27, 2026 @05:25AM (#49461972)
> This will continue till we wisen up and elect the right people, select the right people.

This is part of the problem:

The problem is not necessarily democracy, but rather the insight the lack of bandwidth in voting ballots. A few bits every 4 years or whatever? Contrast this with the rate of modification in the law of a jurisdiction. Define the "democratic grade" as the ratio of binding democratic input in bits/per year to the changes in the binding law in bits/per year.

The problems aren't the concepts of democracy, but that humanity was sold a muzzle with a nameplate stating "democracy".

One may argue that it was necessary in the era where most democracies were initiated, until large enough fractions of the population become educated, but justified or not, its hard to defend today.

Every time you spread the message that we just need to "vote right" you too are in a novel way a part of the problem.

Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by srean on Thursday August 27, 2026 @05:33AM (#49462047)
I agree with your broad point. As I said in another comment, perhaps it is time to lean towards sortition. We need a better and faster feedback loop.

Low probability but high impact hazards, those are the toughest to deal with at society scale.

Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by huurtehoog on Thursday August 27, 2026 @07:03AM (#49462811)
There's no system that can compensate for what people think, want, and do.

We just need to be better. All anyone can do is be a bit better everyday. It's a monumental, hard task that we all just need to do.

This is how society gets better. We have come a long way. We have a long way to go. We can't "design" our way out of simply being better people.

Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by DoctorOetker on Thursday August 27, 2026 @08:23AM (#49463638)
I think you will find little support for your suggestion that when you huurtehoog give up on something, the whole world should also give up on it, without rigorous proof of the proclaimed hopelessness.
Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by lynx97 on Thursday August 27, 2026 @05:22AM (#49461954)
Are there "right people"? Or does power corrupt, and your cozy wish is just not realistic? Looking at local politics, I see misuse of power and on all sides. Left, right, middle. Nobody can be trusted.
Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by srean on Thursday August 27, 2026 @05:28AM (#49462002)
That's a damn good question.

My hunch is there are honest and reasonably competent people but who don't desire such positions.

Perhaps it is time to try sortition at scale.

Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by shrubby on Thursday August 27, 2026 @05:42AM (#49462131)
Valid point!

I was just a while ago writing elsewhere (sorry, not totally on topic):

"But now almost everyone has figured out what the signs of the corruption are so we can spot the ones getting ill from the power and remove them.

I was joking that we (Finland) could sacrifice a island f Åland to be a Matrix for the power corrupted elite. We can simulate plenty of virtual sycophants fro them to be perfectly happy narcissists while isolated from doing us harm.

And I'm happy to volunteer to train as a therapist, should someone want to get better!

The golden rule and its formulations is pretty damn good litmus test for checking the level of corruption. If you're deep enough this will create a rage reaction. Think of Trump when someone talks about empathy or standard deviation. He will get hostile as he doesn't understand what the aliens around him are talking about.

I referred to the moral development with the lollipop and the levels are:

Pre-conventional (narcissist level in childhood or later in life regression by trauma, addiction or ...) Conventional (the sheep level that understands moral based on what others do around - google banality of evil if you don't know this) Post-conventional is the level where we do the golden rule thinking.

Most of us are in the conventional in action, BUT can understand the golden rule and that's enough. Have the decision makers reflect on some, even mundane, issues on the basis of "what if all 8 billion of us did this" and you'll get a short sircuit or division by zero, if the capability has regressed or never developed. These are no evil people by no means, but in most cases ones that have not had a healthy people around them. Either as a child or later on. We just know where we're going to end up should we not remove them from the power. Whether the society is powered by communism, or capitalism, or whateverism the outcome is the same if we don't figure out a way for this.

We cannot allow replacement via "good great leaders" as the power itself also creates the regression, just like addiction or trauma. So if I'm seemingly moral now and you'll select me as the great spagetti leader that dictates over the world and other puny religions, eventually I will corrupt by the admiration. And so will you.

The predicament of the human race is IMO decided by the fact that do we dare to start talking about this human trait honestly :D Sorry a long rant, now I'll shut up!"

So thanks for a question I had an answer almost available!

Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by kijashdkujdfhas on Thursday August 27, 2026 @09:26AM (#49464588)
> I was joking that we (Finland) could sacrifice a island f Åland to be a Matrix for the power corrupted elite.

"Take all your overgrown infants away somewhere And build them a home, a little place of their own The Fletcher Memorial Home For Incurable Tyrants and Kings" ... "They can polish their medals and sharpen their smiles, And abuse themselves playing games for a while Boom boom, bang bang, lie down you're dead"

-- "The Fletcher Memorial Home" by Pink Floyd

Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by srean on Thursday August 27, 2026 @09:31AM (#49464663)
I feel bad for Roger Waters now. He seems to be a sad old solitary man shouting at the clouds, though I mostly agree with him.

My disagreements are about how he treated the band.

Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by lbriner on Thursday August 27, 2026 @11:16AM (#49466242)
I don't think it is necessarily corruption. That is an easy accusation to make but what actually happens when someone joins a government? You learn a whole tonne of stuff you didn't know about what is broken and need fixing and you learn about how much money you don't have to spend but you don't want the country to fall apart in depression but telling everyone they are screwed so you try and deflect as much as possible.

The other issue is that the machinery is not 1 person but 10s or 100s of 1000s of people who are actually doing the work you want to do. There is a difference between "£10M will sort out that hospital easily" and going through the machine ends up making that cost more like £100M not just "corruption" although there will be some but also massive inefficiency, lack of agency for people to make things happen without having 100 meetings to agree it and then having the government change their mind and throw the whole thing in the trash.

Devolving decisions to local government helps to a point but some things have to be managed centrally, which is where the bureaucracy is at its worst.

Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by Gravityloss on Thursday August 27, 2026 @05:47AM (#49462169)
In a large part of the world, the people voted for those people.

https://deming.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/inconvienent-t...

On the other hand, there's also a market for generating outrage and panic, sometimes justified, sometimes not.

Re:Worst-case glacial lake flood scenarios in a transboundar... by shrubby on Thursday August 27, 2026 @05:53AM (#49462231)
Voting is in many parts manipulated or gerrymandered... feature and for it to work we'd need a lot of work.

So not the best metric for what majority of people want.

Also the wants are manufactured in many parts.