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Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by ignoramous on Thursday August 20, 2026 @05:28PM (#49380521)
> large part of the effort that dealt this injustice to him was facilitated by the fact that the vast majority of people willfully turn a blind eye when the same thing or worse happens to people are not of their ilk

Reminds me of Marx's 1870 letter to Sigfrid Meyer and August Vogt:

  Every industrial & commercial centre in England now possesses a working class divided into two hostile camps ... The ordinary English worker hates the Irish worker as a competitor who lowers his standard of life ... regards himself as a member of the ruling nation & consequently becomes a tool of the English [ruling class] against Ireland, thus strengthening their domination [over his own self]. He cherishes religious, social, & national prejudices against the Irish worker ...

  The Irishman ... sees in the English worker both the accomplice and the stupid tool of the English rulers in Ireland.
  
  This antagonism is artificially kept alive & intensified by the press, the pulpit, the comic papers, in short, by all the means at the disposal of the ruling classes. This antagonism is the secret of the impotence of the English working class, despite its organisation. It is the secret by which the capitalist class maintains its power.

  ... The antagonism between Englishmen & Irishmen ... enables the governments of [the US & England], whenever they think fit, to break the edge off the social conflict by their mutual bullying, and, in case of need, by war between the two countries.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1870/letters/70_...
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by mcv on Thursday August 20, 2026 @06:23PM (#49381093)
The exact same mechanism is used to keep poor white Americans voting Republican: even if they're poor, they see themselves as the white ruling class over black and Hispanic people, despite the fact that they themselves are kept poor by the real ruling class.
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by kevin_thibedeau on Thursday August 20, 2026 @07:18PM (#49381600)
The con is largely directed at the religious right, of which, poorer whites make up the largest cohort. That's how they convinced people directly targeted by the bigotry to still vote for them.
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by AnthonyMouse on Thursday August 20, 2026 @07:49PM (#49381861)
You're missing the symmetry. The two party system is a false dichotomy. The enemy is not the other party, it's the system that causes there to be only two alternatives that are both captured by mostly the same interests. Each party convinces half the population that the other is trying to destroy them so that their votes cancel out.

And then Marx calls this a criticism of "capitalism" even though it's fundamentally a generic criticism of what happens when you centralize political power and then allow special interests to divide people into camps.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by mcv on Friday August 21, 2026 @03:10AM (#49384798)
The two party system is absolutely part of the problem, but there's also definitely the culture war being waged to distract people from the class war that's being waged against them. But the two-party system definitely enables that, making it easier to win by discrediting the other, because there only is one other.
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by account42 on Friday August 21, 2026 @04:43AM (#49385445)
And which party started the culture war? By definition it's not the conservatives.
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by mcv on Friday August 21, 2026 @05:01AM (#49385563)
What do you mean "by definition"? They do nothing else. Against transgenders, against gay people, against foreigners, against hippies, against black people; it goes back a long time, and always to recruit the support of poor white people by giving them a sense of superiority over an even more oppressed group. Culture war is their primary weapon to distract from the class war they're also waging.
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by account42 on Friday August 21, 2026 @05:14AM (#49385653)
Continually inventing new categories of "opressed" people and then demanding that others grant them special protections is exactly how you start a culture war.
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by mcv on Friday August 21, 2026 @05:15AM (#49385665)
Those people were always there. Just stop oppressing them. They don't need "special protections", just the same rights as everybody else. Why is it so important to have an oppressed class?
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by account42 on Friday August 21, 2026 @06:27AM (#49386116)
You can't just call everything oppression to force people to go along with your views. And no, progressives haven't wanted the same rights for everyone for decades. The spiel has been all about giving them more rights to compensate for perceived (often hereditary) oppression for too long that anyone can claim that with a straight face.
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by mcv on Friday August 21, 2026 @07:05AM (#49386374)
I don't call everything oppression, I only call oppression oppression. Slavery was oppression. Jim Crow was oppression. Discrimination against Irish, Italians, Hispanics and black people was and is oppression. Denying people the right to be who they are, restricting their rights based on who they are, denying them rights that other people enjoy, is oppression.

The issue is that conservatives have always tried to force people to go along with their views, and reacted with oppression and violence towards anyone who didn't fit into their straightjacket.

> progressives haven't wanted the same rights for everyone for decades

It's been a developing journey. It started with rights for people who weren't noble born, then men who weren't rich, then women and ethnic minorities, then gay people, then transgender people. It's a gradual expansion of rights until everybody is able to enjoy the same rights.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by ignoramous on Friday August 21, 2026 @01:10PM (#49391053)
> The issue is that conservatives have always tried to force people to go along with their views, and reacted with oppression and violence towards anyone who didn't fit into their straightjacket.

All valid, but as always, there's nuances in how people think about assimilation and other things: Normative-ness shouldn't be mistaken for intentional racism. As for normative-ness being systemic racism, there's good deal of changes to be sought there as well, but social institutions that rely on social norms often resist dramatic changes without dramatic escalation in social struggle. The thing with escalation is, it brings about social unrest, which most would prefer to not deal with at all, especially those (who believe in) climbing up the social ladder, or are (relatively) less harmed by the status quo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normativity

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by mcv on Friday August 21, 2026 @02:06PM (#49391814)
Valid point. Of course society needs norms. And I suspect every healthy society has norms. The big difference is what you do when those norms turn out to be unreasonably restrictive to some people. Do your norms override individual freedom even to the freedom to exist and be yourself?

There has to be a point where norms have to give way to freedom, but where do you draw that line?