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Re:U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues by frogperson on Wednesday August 19, 2026 @05:21PM (#49367371)
Citizens United ruined the great american experiment. if you have seen the chart of campaign financing since CU, you would understand. Politicians have zero need to represent citizens because they know unlimited funds are available for marketing to keep/earn your seat.

America simply is no longer a democracy or representative democracy.

Re:U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues by qeternity on Wednesday August 19, 2026 @05:31PM (#49367464)
It is still people, not money, who votes for them over and over again…
Re:U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues by oth001 on Wednesday August 19, 2026 @05:37PM (#49367530)
Well when the choice is between two corrupt and/or bribed politicians...
Re:U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues by JKCalhoun on Thursday August 20, 2026 @09:01AM (#49374068)
Agree, vote for the most wildly corrupt.
Re:U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues by Timon3 on Thursday August 20, 2026 @06:12AM (#49372611)
And the primary reason for people voting like this is the ungodly sums of money spent on elections, combined with the media apparatus built up by the right.

I don't think any democracy could survive Fox News. Unfortunately the global right is colluding to export this concept across the globe...

Re:U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues by otterley on Thursday August 20, 2026 @04:52PM (#49380129)
If money won elections, then the outcome of every election could be predicted with accuracy based solely on the relative spending by or on behalf of each candidate.

In reality, that's not how it works. There are countless examples of candidates who outspent their opponents and lost.

Money gets you reach. It doesn't get you guaranteed results.

Besides, the voters don't get any of that money, nor do they even know most of the time who got more financial support. They'd be insulted by even the slightest suggestion that money is driving their vote.

Re:U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues by Timon3 on Thursday August 20, 2026 @06:15PM (#49380994)
I didn't say that money wins elections, but nice try.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if conservatives could affect more voters with the same amount of money, since spreading bullshit is much cheaper than proving it wrong. The right can flood the zone with a firehose of lies, and even if they literally admit these lies, their voters go along.

Re:U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues by otterley on Friday August 21, 2026 @12:05AM (#49383659)
I...didn’t say you did say that? No need to be defensive.

But a reasonable interpretation of “the primary reason for people voting like this is the ungodly sums of money spent on elections” is that such a direct causal link exists.

If you meant something else, happy to receive a clarification.

Re:U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues by Timon3 on Friday August 21, 2026 @09:17AM (#49387642)
Then I must admit I'm unsure how to interpret your objections, since I understand you to be arguing against the position "The group spending the most money must always win elections". If you're not assuming that I'm taking this position, why bring it up?

> If you meant something else, happy to receive a clarification.

As a thought experiment, assume we're playing gods and decide to simulate a bunch of universes almost exactly like ours, so we can reliably study how civilizations develop (free from the influence of random chance). Then we evaluate how many of these civilizations had periods of strong corruption, loss in quality of life, and all the other negatives we're experiencing this decade.

My argument is: you'd find a correlation between these periods, and the relative amounts of wealth invested into politics. Note this doesn't imply that bigger sums of money must lead to victory - especially if the thesis mentioned in my first reply is correct, which I very much assume it is.

Re:U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues by otterley on Friday August 21, 2026 @09:42AM (#49387942)
I'm not sure. On the other hand, there're plenty of corruption and loss of quality of life where there's not much money in electioneering, or not even a democracy. Take Russia, for example, or any of a number of African or Central American countries.
Re:U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues by Timon3 on Friday August 21, 2026 @04:59PM (#49393716)
Again, I'm not proposing a necessary condition. But leaving aside that Russia isn't a democracy (meaning it's not relevant when discussing elections): are you referencing a study that, among the countries you mentioned, compares the relative amounts of money spent & the development of said issues? If so, links would be greatly appreciated.

If not, I once again fail to see your point - sure, the issues I mentioned occur a lot in poorer countries, I never claimed otherwise! So I still can't see how this relates to my hypothesis.

Re:U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues by JKCalhoun on Thursday August 20, 2026 @09:00AM (#49374060)
I sympathize with your point, we should still blame the voters, but the 1% wouldn't be throwing billions of dollars into politics if they were seeing zero return on their money.
Re:U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues by rhelz on Thursday August 20, 2026 @02:25PM (#49378302)
// America simply is no longer a democracy or representative democracy. //

Well, that's the kicker. We actually did vote him in. TWICE. It would be great if we could blame some cabal or coup or something. It would get us off the hook.

But the sad fact is that Trump--after sending cop-killing goons to the capital to try to steel the last election--we voted him in by a margin of 53%.

We have no one to blame but ourselves.

Re:U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues by snowwrestler on Thursday August 20, 2026 @04:40PM (#49379979)
Citizen's United was decided in 2010. Hillary Clinton out-spent Trump by about $500 million in 2016 and lost.

The reality is that spending can keep a candidate from losing an election for dumb reasons (e.g. lack of name recognition), but it can't win an election by itself. There are plenty of examples of the bigger spender losing, both before and after Citizen's United.