News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by 0cf8612b2e1e on Wednesday May 27, 2026 @07:15PM (#48302076)
I recently had to setup Microsoft Authenticator. It refused to register a code unless I enabled notifications.

You are a two factor app. I should never be in a situation where there is an unexpected login I need to verify.

Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by _carbyau_ on Wednesday May 27, 2026 @07:57PM (#48302434)
> I should never be in a situation where there is an unexpected login I need to verify.

Isn't that kind of the point? If someone else is trying to login somewhere with your credentials, your two factor will ping up?

Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by 0cf8612b2e1e on Wednesday May 27, 2026 @08:04PM (#48302482)
Why would I want that? If it is not me, I am not going to allow the login. Making it a notification makes it more likely I could fat finger an approval.

I guess you can make the argument that you are then made aware of login attempts, but that feels more like something the host service should control.

Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by _carbyau_ on Wednesday May 27, 2026 @08:29PM (#48302668)
> Why would I want that?

Because to get that far they entered your password? Which you might like to change?

You did mention: "You are a two factor app."

If they've got past your first factor, you might want to know.

Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by hunter2_ on Wednesday May 27, 2026 @09:39PM (#48303266)
I recently got an unsolicited OTP email from Microsoft, which led me to fear that someone had entered my password, but no: I eventually was able to confirm that the arrival of an OTP does not, in fact, require that someone enter anything beyond my email address. This is rather insane (I should not be having a blood pressure event due to Microsoft) but on the other hand I do understand the passwordless concept which is just a password-reset flow sans password-change. Perhaps a nice middle ground would be if the OTP email explicitly stated that my password was not entered.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by xocnad on Thursday May 28, 2026 @06:52AM (#48307183)
This also happened to me about a week ago and I had the same reaction/discovery process you did. OT but I wonder if there was a recent ramp up in these attacks. It was done against an email I do not regularly use that was attached to my account as an alternate and haveibeenpwned confirmed was in a data breach back in 2020.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by hunter2_ on Friday May 29, 2026 @04:35AM (#48320630)
I had been thinking someone with a similar address made a typo. But now I'm thinking Microsoft already considers this a known incident depending on whether a bazillion attempts were made in a detectable manner. I hope a successful launch at least demands a botnet and random delays/backoff.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by projektfu on Thursday May 28, 2026 @08:55AM (#48308278)
Some providers (looking at you, Intuit) don't seem to understand TWO factor authentication and will allow someone to bypass your password if they can intercept the SMS or email, and treat it as a normal login.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by hunter2_ on Friday May 29, 2026 @04:45AM (#48320681)
I can imagine an evolution like:

1. Introduce passwords

2. Introduce email-based reset flow

3. Introduce 2FA (optional)

4. Someone says "take the password reset flow, trigger it automatically when a user tries to log in and has only given their email, hide the password field during login, and after the email is validated drop the user back to their previous journey instead of having them set a new password"

5. You see #4 as #3 failing, but when #3 was never applied it's not quite that. Aside: making #3 mandatory would be smart.

Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by projektfu on Friday May 29, 2026 @04:44PM (#48328990)
It's Intuit's normal login flow. Enter username and it then says enter password or click here and we'll text/e-mail you a code. Ironically, if you use a password it will often text you a 2FA code.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by dexterdog on Wednesday May 27, 2026 @09:35PM (#48303220)
I would, but I don't need to know immediately. Plus you have the other vector of my phone sitting on a table and showing the notification to a person who can see it when they are trying to login as me.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by hunter2_ on Wednesday May 27, 2026 @09:44PM (#48303302)
I find it to be a poor default that sensitive data is shown on the lock screen. I change that setting as a first order of business whenever I'm setting up a new phone.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by dexterdog on Thursday May 28, 2026 @11:02PM (#48318493)
SMS should not be considered sensitive data since it can be read by entities between you and the source.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by hunter2_ on Friday May 29, 2026 @04:23AM (#48320539)
If someone texts me something that's not interesting to those MITMs but is sensitive to mom catching a glance while my phone is on the table, that's a problem this toggle creates/destroys. Threat models vary.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by Tagbert on Thursday May 28, 2026 @01:53AM (#48305100)
Our Okta is setup so that it usually does the two-factor before asking for password.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by tardedmeme on Thursday May 28, 2026 @03:46AM (#48305912)
I saw a new marketing strategy recently: Someone tried to sign into something with my email. I didn't have an account, so they took the excuse to send me an email asking me to create an account.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by reaperducer on Thursday May 28, 2026 @08:14AM (#48307832)
I saw a new marketing strategy recently: Someone tried to sign into something with my email. I didn't have an account, so they took the excuse to send me an email asking me to create an account.

This has been going on since at least 2006.

Startups will "growth hack" by buying e-mail lists and feeding them into their password recovery tools.

A certain percentage of people will then follow the links and end up creating a new account on a service they had no interest in that now has their confirmed contact information, a new user, and a plausible reason to bombard them with marketing email.

Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by miki123211 on Thursday May 28, 2026 @09:08AM (#48308469)
I recently started getting emails from a company warning me that "I only had x days left to verify your account."

The account was supposedly registered for an organization whose name was somewhat similar to mine, so I thought somebody fat-fingered their coworker's email (the initial email was an invitation to create an account and join the org), but it might have very well been the tactic you described.

Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by zem on Thursday May 28, 2026 @04:07AM (#48306078)
huh, is that why my google authenticator app pops up randomly? i always figured it was a bug in the app or in android.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by ishtanbul on Wednesday May 27, 2026 @11:50PM (#48304266)
Okta has push as an option. Maybe msft has that too.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by onion2k on Thursday May 28, 2026 @03:04AM (#48305614)
Key word there being 'option'. If you choose to use push as your mechanism then enabling it is obvious. If you choose not to the app should still work. You don't need push notifications enabled on an MFA app.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by implements on Thursday May 28, 2026 @02:49AM (#48305504)
Tip: The iPhone Passwords App has basic TOTP functionality (manually create a password entry and click “Set Up Code”). I have a few dummy passwords which are effectively just labels for some login codes - it’s one less App to install.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by account42 on Thursday May 28, 2026 @04:57AM (#48306439)
Unfortunately Microsoft Authenticator does more than TOTP and usually its not up to the user to decide which two factor implementation is accepted.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by robbiep on Thursday May 28, 2026 @07:07AM (#48307301)
Some Microsoft setups ONLY allow Authenticator - can’t use 1pass etc. I have recently fallen into this pit
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by 1718627440 on Thursday May 28, 2026 @04:25AM (#48306204)
Apps can know whether you granted permission?? That sounds like a security flaw.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by autoexec on Thursday May 28, 2026 @07:49AM (#48307610)
Of course, that way they can so they can refuse to work until you uninstall or give in to their demands. There are other operating systems that present fake data at least.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by subscribed on Thursday May 28, 2026 @07:12AM (#48307343)
Yep. Just today I had a tram/bus ticket purchase app refuse to work unless I grant it Phone access.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by miki123211 on Thursday May 28, 2026 @09:04AM (#48308412)
This is basically required for clueless (and even not so clueless) users.

If there's a chat app I installed 3 years ago, with no intention of giving it camera access, and I suddenly need to use that app for a video call, I don't want to be stuck debugging broken camera issues for two hours. I'd much rather have the app tell me that it doesn't have camera access.

Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by Ntrails on Thursday May 28, 2026 @12:09PM (#48310971)
> This is basically required for clueless (and even not so clueless) users.

I can actually confess that this hit me. Almost nothing on my phone has permission to use my camera, including my web browser (why???). I assume this was done in a fit of pique upon discovering that the setting even existed.

Roll on (god knows how many years later) and I cannot get into the gym with the link I was emailed to have my browser read a QR because my browser is just a grey screen. It was only when the member of staff suggested permissions that I realised what was going on.

I'm the problem, it's me

Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by 1718627440 on Thursday May 28, 2026 @09:41AM (#48308845)
The OS could tell you instead. If it is a camera app, the OS could tell you on install, that you can't start the app without given camera access, because that's what the app is.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by xmprt on Thursday May 28, 2026 @02:43PM (#48313558)
This is fair for permissions. But for notifications, the app shouldn't need to know. It can just send them into the void for all the app cares. If the notification doesn't work then it should never break critical app functionality and apps should be built with the assumption that users will never see/interact with notifications.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by noirscape on Thursday May 28, 2026 @10:27AM (#48309427)
They can, but there's an OS option that basically is "I'm going to say yes, but then effectively do no". Basically it'll pretend to the application that a permission is granted, but then just keep returning empty information or doing nothing with it. So notification perms would then be seen as enabled, but nothing is actually being send to the user.

Unfortunately Google isn't really exposing this to users, so you need something like App Ops or adb to set it up.

Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by djhn on Friday May 29, 2026 @03:00AM (#48319935)
Yes, and they’re bound to abuse it.

There’s a similar thing going on with emails. Dozens of services ”decide” that you need to update your email address, because ”they can’t reach you”. Many of them even stop sending you emails you explicitly subscribed to, perhaps to maintain an archive, ”because you don’t seem to open them”.

No, dear Linkedin and others, you’re reaching me just fine, and it’s none of your business whether, when and where I open them. Maybe I just read my emails offline and strip your tracking links (and avoid clicking on links in emails in general).

Inexplicably LinkedIn’s UX for changing the old email address, the one they cannot reach you at (!), to a new email address, starts with confirming your current email address (THE ONE THEY CANNOT REACH YOU AT). Brilliant.

Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by dwedge on Thursday May 28, 2026 @08:12AM (#48307814)
I want scopes like Graphene has for storage scopes. I want this on my phone and browser - let the site/app think it has everything (cookies, storage, microphone, camera, notifications, whatever it wants) but it's all empty and does nothing.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by wazoox on Thursday May 28, 2026 @10:36AM (#48309556)
AFAICT any TOTP app (FreeOTP+, Aegis...) works just fine with Microsoft services (or Google, etc). You don't actually need to install several TOTP apps.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by 0cf8612b2e1e on Thursday May 28, 2026 @10:48AM (#48309744)
Microsoft Authenticator is not standard TOTP, but their own private flavor.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by wazoox on Thursday May 28, 2026 @12:37PM (#48311427)
I've used FreeOTP+ to connect to my customers' Microsoft Teams for years without any trouble.
Re:What Apple and Google are doing to your push notifications by WorldMaker on Thursday May 28, 2026 @02:13PM (#48313106)
I believe this is also a consequence of iOS gating background processing and scheduled timers allowed by an app based on whether or not notifications are enabled by the user. I believe Microsoft Authenticator also wants notifications enabled for the same reason most Banking apps on iOS want notifications enabled, so that it can register a ~10-minute background timer to run any backups, securely clear program memory, and safely "logout" from any active "session".

On the one hand it helps avoid "permissions fatigue" that the user just has the one permission to manage ("enable notifications"), but on the other hand it does lead to these questions about why an entire class of applications (banking apps and security apps) whose role should be mostly never to send notifications (because that can be a FUD/fear/fraud vector) need notifications enabled to work securely.