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Re:Why Japan has such good railways by CharlieDigital on Saturday April 18, 2026 @11:55AM (#47816887)

    > "I think that though we are a railway company, we consider ourselves a city-shaping company. In Europe for instance, railway companies simply connect cities through their terminals. That is a pretty normal way of operating in this industry, whereas what we do is completely different: we create cities and then, as a utility facility, we add the stations and the railways to connect them one with another."
I think this is it. The economic model incentivizes rail development. (Certainly, part of it is also cultural and legal frameworks that in the US make it very hard for this model to work)

Because the railway companies also participate in the economic activity at the destinations, they extract extended value from enabling mobility. Imagine if the rail operators owned a percentage of a stadium or convention center, for example. This then creates the economic incentive to build more connections to this "hub".

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by zdw on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:17PM (#47817054)
Kyoto station is a great example of this. It's enormous inside, with a hotel on the top, event facilities, and a ton of retail all over.

https://www.kyotostation.com/kyoto-station-building-faciliti...

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by rjh29 on Saturday April 18, 2026 @03:20PM (#47818712)
It's actually a bad example - there is barely anything around Kyoto station except a few hotels and some shopping malls. The main shopping/entertainment area and almost all tourist attractions are north of it, requiring connection by bus or subway.

The areas around major stations in basically any other city are far more developed. Look at Osaka-Umeda for example. I don't know if that's due to the historical buildings or the relative lack of good railway within the city itself (Kyoto is mostly a hub to get between other lines)

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by openuntil3am on Saturday April 18, 2026 @06:40PM (#47820166)
> there is barely anything around Kyoto station

This is simply not true. Kyoto station is probably the most densely packed shopping / entertainment area in the city.

Source: I live in Kyoto.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by rjh29 on Sunday April 19, 2026 @02:35AM (#47822242)
I don't live there now but I did for a long time.

The original comment was "I think that though we are a railway company, we consider ourselves a city-shaping company." Kyoto is absolutely not built around its station. Walk a few blocks away and there's nothing but regular apartments! The true centre is Shijo Kawaramachi.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by CharlieDigital on Sunday April 19, 2026 @01:02PM (#47825742)
Eh.

The station itself is a pretty active hub. We arrived there 9:30 AM to visit teamLabs Kyoto (which is just walking distance away from the station) and it was already pretty packed in the station.

But I think your observation/comment maybe misses the mark: the rail operators may still end up owning some of the commercial real estate nearby whether it's office buildings, hotels, etc. It doesn't all have to be shopping or dining, just that the rail operating owning the real estate near the transit hubs provides an incentive to provide service to that hub to create more value from those holdings.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by CharlieDigital on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:48PM (#47817327)
In my travels through Japan and Taiwan, rail stops are almost always hubs of economic activity of all sorts. It's a selling point when searching for accommodations while planning trips. Easy access to food and shopping. Taiwan night markets in cities, for example, are almost always near major rail station of some kind (light, metro, train). No need to go very far to get from one point of interest to another.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by kccqzy on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:11PM (#47817008)
> Certainly, part of it is also cultural and legal frameworks that in the US make it very hard for this model to work

How so? In the United States Congress granted land to railroad companies, and the companies can sell the land to finance building tracks. Many cities started as railroad stops and grew because of the railroad.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by d_sem on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:17PM (#47817047)
I suspect the commenter above is reflecting on 2026 USA and not 1850 USA. The past tense nature of your comment if part of the concern highlights a common recognition that there is limited evidence the country is currently capable of building.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by CharlieDigital on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:30PM (#47817174)
A lot of NIMBY/racism/classism and modern reality of legal delays means that it can be costly.

Zoning laws is another. It's a lot of fun visiting Japan and Taiwan because you can wander around and there's a huge variation of utilization in a given block. US approach to zoning means that I rarely see similar utilization in the US.

Separate from this is politics.

I'm in the NYC metro area and we've been trying to expand access into NYC for decades.

You would think that this would be a no-brainer because it enables so much economic activity in both directions (NY/NJ). Yet, Chris Christie canceled the ARC project (which itself was years in the making) for optics at the time of the Tea Party.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by kevin_thibedeau on Saturday April 18, 2026 @02:01PM (#47818012)
There's an existing disused commuter rail line in NJ near the Hudson that was shut down in the 60s. It still has many of its stations and density to support rail service today but can't be reopened because of the NIMBYs. If they can't make that work, the rest of the country is mostly hopeless.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by kavok on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:37PM (#47817225)
NIMBY seems to have a hard time stopping data centers. Why do they have more success stopping renewables and rail?
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by Avicebron on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:42PM (#47817269)
If we put the same amount of economic pressure on rail that data centers have...the US would have probably have almost as nice infrastructure as China and be significantly better off.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by CharlieDigital on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:42PM (#47817271)
NIMBY is stopping data centers.

Maine set to become first state with data center ban: https://www.cnbc.com/2026/04/09/maine-data-center-ban.html

Also, it's a different kind of more insidious and visceral NIMBY rooted in racism and classism.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by kavok on Saturday April 18, 2026 @04:18PM (#47819192)
Sure, it’s stopping some, but not most/all even with strong public opposition.

See: https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/small-missouri-to...

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by ghaff on Saturday April 18, 2026 @02:26PM (#47818229)
Not sure it's a bad thing. So, they would employ maybe 30 people after they're built. Consume a lot of power and water. I'd have to see the details of a specific proposal but I'd probably vote against personally.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by WillPostForFood on Saturday April 18, 2026 @01:15PM (#47817595)
Yes, see the famous essay, Nimby Good When My Neighborhood by I Hyppocrit.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by kulahan on Saturday April 18, 2026 @08:51PM (#47820884)
It's facetious to pretend NIMBYs are as such because they're racist and classist, rather than because they just want to protect the single most valuable and future-determining investment they'll make in their entire lives.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by otterley on Sunday April 19, 2026 @01:15AM (#47821981)
Those factors are tied together and aren’t easily separable. The racism and classism comes in because they believe that people of a different race or class will diminish the value of their investment.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by tormeh on Sunday April 19, 2026 @02:38AM (#47822252)
If enough people believe this then it is true. That's just how markets work.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by otterley on Sunday April 19, 2026 @01:06PM (#47825777)
It is how (unregulated) markets work, but is this the right outcome? What do you think would happen if this were allowed to play out to its logical extent?
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by kulahan on Friday April 24, 2026 @08:33PM (#47897473)
Desirable things become expensive and undesirable things become inexpensive.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by kjkjadksj on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:44PM (#47817286)
The public rail industry has no bribing mechanism unlike the data center industry and the fossil fuel industry. Did I write bribe? Sorry, “campaign contribution.” But sometimes also literally bribes like Tony Soprano cash in the bag.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by Freedom2 on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:18PM (#47817061)
I sometimes see the US referred to as a "post-rail" society, meaning that it has outgrown the need for rail for the more intimate, personal transportation methods we see today. I submit that, like other HN commenters say, the US doesn't need rail due to this society. How will US citizens help their friends move or do their large (in terms of volume) Costco grocery shopping without large trucks and only using rail?
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by rayiner on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:34PM (#47817198)
I’m probably a top 5% train nerd for the U.S. I took trains to work primarily from 2012-2020, in NYC, Philly, Baltimore, and DC. I used to ride Amtrak from Baltimore to DC every morning. I love Tokyo’s train system. I go there every year and I always take the train. But when I went there with my wife and three kids, I took a lot of Ubers! You can’t fit our double stroller with big America bags of toys and snacks on a business hours subway in Tokyo.

Americans love choice and they love stuff. They fill their cars with their stuff drive around on their own schedule without having to watch a clock or think about what’s near a train line and what isn’t. (Even with Tokyo’s amazing railway network, you have to think about that!) My wife drives to three different grocery stores 20 miles apart to get exactly the products she wants. The idea of just accepting whatever brand of hamburger buns they have at the store that’s conveniently on the train line between our house and work is completely alien.

To live within a Japanese system, Americans would have to change a bunch of other things about their culture. We’d have to give our kids independence to take the train themselves, instead of spending every saturday driving them around to 3 different far flung activities. We’d have to learn to appreciate what’s conveniently available, instead of the exact thing we want.

And not even Tokyo’s amazing train network makes it convenient to juggle two working spouses and school drop off and pickup for three kids. What line is convenient to your house, both parents work, and all three kids’ schools? The Japanese don’t even try to solve that problem.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by kevin_thibedeau on Saturday April 18, 2026 @02:09PM (#47818078)
I lived for many years next to a train station in NJ. I could readily take the train in to Manhattan, but for the hours I'd be there in evenings and on weekends, it was much more convenient and faster to drive in. My town was far enough out that the cost was slightly cheaper to drive (before the congestion fee). I then had the freedom to leave at any time without concern for the schedule.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by Karrot_Kream on Saturday April 18, 2026 @02:27PM (#47818234)
> My town was far enough out that the cost was slightly cheaper to drive (before the congestion fee)

Aside from culture, this is another aspect which they touch on in the article. Japan doesn't have public parking. You're only allowed to buy a car if you have access to a parking spot. Tokyo is full of lots but they're all paid lots that charge in 30-60 min increments. There's also a lot of congestion zones in Tokyo which make driving in the city very expensive. Companies that do deliveries in the city often have a company car (or fleet of such) which lets them drive to destinations.

Overnight workers who do spend significant times at work before/after the trains stop do drive in. Most Japanese families in Tokyo live in suburbs surrounding the city and will walk, bike, or drive to a nearest train station to commute in.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by ghaff on Saturday April 18, 2026 @03:08PM (#47818593)
I'm fairly far out from Boston/Cambridge but I'm pretty much the same situation. Going in for a commute (or 9-5 event), the commuter rail is pretty good; I'm a 7 minute drive to the station. But it's basically unworkable for an evening event (or a day into evening event). Trains are maybe every 90 minutes outside of commuting hours and they're largely empty. I end up suffering the drive in, paying for parking as needed (which isn't an issue if I'm going in for my usual theater), and then a pretty easy drive home. Wouldn't even think about taking rail in for the weekend.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by CharlieDigital on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:54PM (#47817384)

    > We’d have to give our kids independence to take the train themselves, instead of spending every saturday driving them around to 3 different far flung activities.
The shock! The horror!

    > The idea of just accepting whatever brand of hamburger buns they have at the store...
How could a family possibly survive! Imagine having to eat a different brand of hamburger buns! Truly, America is a shining beacon of modernity and convenience where I can get the exact, precise, industrially mass produced hamburger bun.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by ipdashc on Saturday April 18, 2026 @01:15PM (#47817599)
Maybe you misinterpreted the post you replied to? I don't think they were saying this stuff is a crazy proposal, just that it will be a different way of life for most Americans. No need to be so abrasive.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by keybored on Saturday April 18, 2026 @05:06PM (#47819524)
They were reacting to what was presented and saying that it was foolish. It doesn’t matter if the author presented it as “I am saying this” or “Americans think this”.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by rayiner on Saturday April 18, 2026 @01:10PM (#47817558)
You’re preaching to the choir. I loved working at a company with a company cafeteria because I hated going out into midtown manhattan every day to choose lunch. But convincing americans that all their “choice” is illusory isn’t a matter of transit policy, it’s something much harder.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by magnio on Saturday April 18, 2026 @01:07PM (#47817539)
Damn, we get it, USA is a dystopia. No need to keep scaring us with those stories.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by hollerith on Sunday April 19, 2026 @12:03PM (#47825291)
It just occurred to me that some of the car-hating comments on HN might be motivated by a yearning for a more communal way of life, which is opposed by the US's ethic of freedom for individualism.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by enaaem on Saturday April 18, 2026 @09:30PM (#47821068)
If Tokyo was in America, your situation would be like this: imagine going outside of your home and walk for 10 minutes to a small hamburger shop. It only has 10 seats and it’s run a by hamburger nerd who makes elite hamburgers. This guy grinds his own beef, bakes his own buns and pickles his own pickles and everything is perfect. The burgers are only 8 dollars and you can’t even imagine of making hamburgers yourself.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by rayiner on Saturday April 18, 2026 @10:26PM (#47821324)
I know, I’m familiar with Tokyo. But my family would take up half the restaurant, only one of the three kids would like the burger, and the other two would throw a shit fit because the burger guy only sells burgers. Two different societies optimizing for different things.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by tuna74 on Sunday April 19, 2026 @12:22PM (#47825435)
There are family restaurants in Japan as well. You would not bring your family to the place described above, you would go with your spouse, friends or colleges or other adults.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by selimthegrim on Sunday April 19, 2026 @05:07PM (#47827657)
This happens in New Orleans but the burger is like 28 dollars.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by coel on Sunday April 19, 2026 @03:36PM (#47826985)
> school drop off and pickup for three kids

When we were in Japan my son walked to school when he was 6. Parts of the walk close to the school were supervised. It wasn't just allowed, it was expected.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by zhdc1 on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:33PM (#47817192)
The same way people in every other country do it (rental vans)

Rail <-> Road isn't an either or issue. It wasn't in 1850 and it isn't today. The only difference, at least in the US, is that poorly designed government intervention/policies forced low population densities.

Rail and other forms of public transport simply don't work with suburban sprawl. Large roadways also don't work - compare the state of US infrastructure against pretty much every other country out there - it's just that the financial bill from an unbelievable amount of deferred maintenance hasn't come due yet.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by CharlieDigital on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:35PM (#47817211)

    > How will US citizens help their friends move or do their large (in terms of volume) Costco grocery shopping without large trucks and only using rail?
Japan happens to be the 4th largest market (by stores) for Costco (US, Canada, Mexico, Japan)

Apparently, it works just fine.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by twodave on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:58PM (#47817436)
Rail for the US has always been more about moving goods than people. For overland long-haul freight it is significantly cheaper than trucking. Rail allows us to ship goods to places where we don’t have ports or river access. A place like Japan can make such good use of rail simply because it is so densely populated.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by bobthepanda on Saturday April 18, 2026 @01:22PM (#47817651)
The US is also densely populated; when people are talking about high speed rail they are talking about connecting the major, close by metropolitan areas that most people live in.

The Midwest, as an example, has roughly the same size and population as France with a larger economy. In fact, if you overlay the French TGV network onto the Midwest with Chicago where Paris is, you get a pretty good approximation of where major Midwestern cities are located: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/NMr3J3gt8C

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by dullcrisp on Saturday April 18, 2026 @07:49PM (#47820549)
Even if it would serve the same population, I don’t think a system like this would have the same level of demand as France’s high speed rail.

Frankly, these don’t look like locations that that many people want to travel between.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by bobthepanda on Saturday April 18, 2026 @08:19PM (#47820713)
Most travel happens between cities that are close together, and Chicago has always been the larger gateway to the rest of the nation and the world.

The French urban areas on the TGV aren’t very big; Montpelier, for example, has a total of 600,000 people in its metro area, which is roughly the same size as Toledo, OH or Wichita, KS.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by dullcrisp on Saturday April 18, 2026 @09:11PM (#47820991)
Montpellier probably gets more tourism than Toledo though. And most people taking the train to Paris are probably not doing it so they can fly somewhere else.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by bobthepanda on Saturday April 18, 2026 @09:41PM (#47821124)
You actually can book an Air France/TGV combo ticket: https://wwws.airfrance.fr/en/information/prepare/voyages-com...

And yeah, there would be a fair amount of demand just to Chicago the same way there is a fair amount of demand to Paris, in that they’re both the regional powerhouses with finance, HQs, etc.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by dullcrisp on Saturday April 18, 2026 @10:15PM (#47821277)
Everything you’re saying is true but I don’t think any of it contradicts what I’m saying.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by bobthepanda on Saturday April 18, 2026 @01:16PM (#47817608)
Who says anything about “only?” Japan is home to a thriving car industry.

If anything, right now America is tilted heavily to car-only.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by kjkjadksj on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:45PM (#47817306)
People in Japan also move and go shopping.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by DaedalusII on Saturday April 18, 2026 @12:28PM (#47817151)
avoiding public transport, much like the creation of suburbs and gated communities, refusing to walk anywhere, expensive private schools with the same academic output as public high schools,

...

completely makes sense when you realise it is all just an elaborate system to avoid being around the small part of the population that commit insane amounts of violent crime in the US with no motive

---

Christopher Lane, a 22-year-old Australian baseball player, was fatally shot while jogging in Duncan, Oklahoma, on August 16, 2013. Three teenagers, including convicted gunman Chancey Luna, targeted him in a random "boredom" killing. Luna received life in prison without parole, while accomplices received lesser sentences

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by ssl-3 on Saturday April 18, 2026 @09:08PM (#47820972)
Trucks can be rented. When then-wife and I were remodelling the tired old house we lived in, we didn't own a truck. We talked about it (and in this instance, had space for one), and we mathed it a bit. The numbers quickly showed that it would be very expensive to own a truck, for only a little bit of added, occasional convenience.

When we needed a truck to move cabinets or drywall or whatever, we rented one for that. It didn't cost much.

When we moved houses, we rented a truck for that. It was easier and cheaper to move with one rented huge box truck, than to own something that would be useful for that.

Otherwise: Deliveries. We just had big stuff delivered. No problem. Things like appliances and TVs were simply delivered, and this never added any expense to the purchase.

These days, even Costco delivers stuff just fine. It does tend to cost more than in-store.

Rentals and deliveries can easily cost hundreds of dollars per year. It's not free; it might even be rationalized as being rather expensive.

But owning/insuring/maintaining/fuelling/parking a car (or a truck, just the same) can easily cost thousands. It's a different magnitude.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by tuna74 on Sunday April 19, 2026 @12:24PM (#47825447)
And you also realise that for most things a van is more practical than a pickup truck.
Re:Why Japan has such good railways by ssl-3 on Sunday April 19, 2026 @03:07PM (#47826750)
It is.

The work I do requires me to have things like tools and ladders with me. A sedan doesn't quite cut it (I've tried), and SUVs are awful for every practical road-going purpose.

So these tools and ladders are out in the van (a top-trim Honda Odyssey) right now. It does OK on gas, it's very comfortable, it keeps everything nice and dry with 3 zones of HVAC, and it's passively theft-deterrant: Nothing about it says "steal these tools" to a would-be thief at all.

It's really good.

If I did work that didn't require a vehicle like that then I'd just have a small sedan. (I live in a very car-centric area of Ohio, as do the people I'm fond of being near. I either need a car or I need to change my views about what I find important in life; that's the way the cookie crumbles.)

And if I lived in an area with actually-good public transportation and the kinds of neighborhood shops that this promotes, then I probably wouldn't even want a small sedan. I like walking and riding a bike. And I'd rather buy a transit pass and spend more time reading, than pay for all the things that having a car requires me to pay for.

Adding the occasional train ticket (that never needs new tires, or an oil change, or a timing belt) for longer trips would be cheaper than owning a car, too.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by ahhhhnoooo on Saturday April 18, 2026 @11:39PM (#47821620)
I ride my cargo bike to Costco. I can fit a full shopping cart on it, getting enough for a family of three regularly and easily. With a small hatchback car I could easily fit way more. If I had a convenient train I'd shop more frequently with a rolling 2 wheel cart.

It's really not difficult to shop large volume thongs without a giant car.

Re:Why Japan has such good railways by enaaem on Saturday April 18, 2026 @09:09PM (#47820982)
I believe America has built railway towns. I am surprised why America that’s very fond of capitalism never developed this concept further? With some aggressive horizontal integration you can built your own kingdom. It is brilliant!