This. I’m sure everyone has a similar story of how difficult it was to explain the difference between a program shortcut represented as a visual icon on a desktop versus the actual executable itself to somebody who didn’t grow up in the age of computing. And this was Windows… the purported OS for the masses not the classes.

Initially I thought you meant “software architect” and I was flabbergasted at how that’s possible. Took me a minute to realize there’s other architects out there lol.

I think you just proved the point here about the divide between the average user of this site and the population.

The same way most people hear "legacy" and think it's something good

It is? :)

right clicking start menu and clicking shutdown is too hard? amazing

Yes! Even closing the windows of programs that users no longer need is hard.

It's easy to develop a disconnect with the level that average users operate at when understanding computers deeply is part of the job. I've definitely developed it myself to some extent, but I have occasional moments where my perspective is getting grounded again.

I don't think that's representative of most non-CS professionals. Most people in the fields I know (mostly professors, medical doctors, and businesspeople) can use google chrome, word, powerpoint, and a little of excel decently. There are the occasional few who confuse spreadsheets and databases, but no one who thinks shutting down computers or closing windows is hard. Heck, my ageing dad managed to troubleshoot his printer without any help, and he has no formal computer experience whatsoever.

HN has a long history of patronising the "average user" in the guise of paternal figures who don't realise that what they are doing is belittling the vast majority of tech users. I'm guilty of it myself. But they're capable of a lot more than we think they are.

Ultimately, it comes down to the willingness people have to learn new things. If they're curious enough to think about how things work, they'll be fine.

Well, I didn't mean for this to be patronizing, but rather as a warning that not everybody is at the same level and the spread is huge. I see it often enough.

I'm not doing this to be patronising, more like telling people or myself that assumptions i make, are just not necessarily true for everyone.

And weirdly enough, a Task like sorting a file with data in it, if you are not a professional, windows offers very if not non single way of doing this. You would need to understand file types, understand that csv can be imported for excel, you need excel, than you need to understand excel how to sort stuff in it.

The ffirst thing I do in Excel is select the pseudo table and click on table -> insert to make it a sortable / real table. I showed this to every one in my Team full of studied CS people because non of them knew this.

It's a while since I've used Windows but I seem to remember it giving a choice of sleep, logout, switch session etc. I could totally see someone wanting a single button for it.

KDE is even worse. No matter which of those you choose, the next screen requires you to choose again. It's been this way since KDE 4.0.

Ah yes, this task fails hard at the xkcd.com/627/ tactic of "Find a menu item or button that looks related to what you want to do..."

What do I want to do? "turn off my computer" What button do I press? "start"

Oh boy, the gap between the average it professional and ai pros here is already staggering, let alone the rest of the world. I feel like an alien, no matter where.