News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday March 26, 2026 @03:14PM (#47534446)
> further procedural steps by EU governments cannot be completely ruled out

In a democracy, we don't kill our opposition. If they hold views we don't like, e.g. that security trumps privacy, they're going to litigate them. Probably their whole lives. That means they'll keep bringing up the same ideas. And you'll have to keep defeating them. But there are two corollaries.

One: Passing legislation takes as much work as repealing it; but unpassed legislation has no force of law. Being on the side that's keeping legislation from being passed is the stronger position. You have the status quo on your side. (The only stronger hand is the side fighting to keep legislation from being repealed. Then you have both the status quo and force of law on your side.)

Two: Legislative wants are unlimited. Once a group has invested into political machinery and organisation, they're not going to go home after passing their law. Thus, repeatedly failing to pass a law represents a successful bulwark. It's a resource sink for the defense, yes. But the defense gets to hold onto the status quo. The offense is sinking resources into the same fight, except with nothing to show for it. (Both sides' machines get honed.)

Each generation tends to have a set of issues they continuously battle. The status quo that persists or emerges in their wake forms a bedrock the next generations take for granted. This is the work of a democracy. Constantly working to convince your fellow citizens that your position deserves priority. Because the alternative is the people in power killing those who disagree with them.

Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by WhyNotHugo on Thursday March 26, 2026 @03:59PM (#47534963)
You have “centralised democracy”, a form of democracy where decisions, once debated and adopted, are implemented uniformly throughout an organisation. They are not debated a second time, and there’s no room for dissenting against decisions already made.

It’s a double-edge sword though: if something you dislike gets votes, it’s never going away.

Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by gzread on Thursday March 26, 2026 @04:27PM (#47535296)
Yes, if I don't like something, I can't just ignore it. That is called democracy, and rule of law. Democracy is often interpreted to mean only things I like get passed, but that is incorrect.
Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday March 26, 2026 @04:33PM (#47535353)
> They are not debated a second time, and there’s no room for dissenting against decisions already made

Of course they are and of course there is. The "EU passed a temporary derogation" to the ePrivacy Directive in 2021 "called Chat Control 1.0 by critics" [1]. That is now dead [2].

> if something you dislike gets votes, it’s never going away

Weird to be saying precedent is infintely binding in 2026 of all years.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chat_Control#Legislative_proce...

[2] https://x.com/NoToDigitalID/status/2037213272131203339

Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by Saline9515 on Thursday March 26, 2026 @04:57PM (#47535620)
The EU parliament can't retract existing laws if the EC doesn't agree and proposes a law doing it.
Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by WhyNotHugo on Saturday March 28, 2026 @05:16AM (#47552942)
The sentence which you are quoting is referencing the concept described in the previous sentence of the same paragraph. It is not describing the EU’s form of democracy.
Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by lpcvoid on Thursday March 26, 2026 @03:22PM (#47534533)
Great comment, thank you. I know that I could simply upvote, but this deserved more.
Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by BandOfBots on Thursday March 26, 2026 @04:09PM (#47535085)
JumpCrisscross for President
Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by Zak on Thursday March 26, 2026 @04:44PM (#47535476)
It seems to me that "no and don't ask again" should be a possible outcome of a vote on proposed legislation.

Without going into full detail on the procedure I'm imagining, such an outcome would bar consideration of equivalent legislation for several years and require a supermajority at several stages of the legislative process to override.

Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by Saline9515 on Thursday March 26, 2026 @04:53PM (#47535588)
The EU parliament is not a real parliament since it can't choose which laws it has to vote for, and in negociations ("trilogue") it doesn't hold the pen.

Basically, it can oppose new legislations but can't retract old laws.

Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday March 26, 2026 @10:46PM (#47538588)
> seems to me that "no and don't ask again" should be a possible outcome of a vote on proposed legislation

It can't be. At least not in a legislature. Defining what is the same question is itself a political question. And past legislatures being able to bind future ones is just a futurecasting veto. A single crap election could poison the pool on a raft of issues for generations.

The proper way to do this is through constitutional amendments. The fact that these are too difficult to do, currently, seems to be the bug.

Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by bitwize on Friday March 27, 2026 @12:25AM (#47539100)
Ah, but if they were easier to do, would they be as effectice at stopping "bad" legislation?
Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by fwn on Friday March 27, 2026 @06:54AM (#47541126)
Ironically, just like many software users, the EU Parliament is not given the option to say "no", only "ask me later".

Anyone who’s ever been unable to dismiss a nag and forced to defer via "Ask me later" knows the feeling of powerlessness and disenfranchisement deliberately planted by those making UX decisions. .. or the EU constitutional framework.

Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by izacus on Monday March 30, 2026 @03:06AM (#47571300)
What you propose is totalitarian and not democratic.
Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by lenerdenator on Thursday March 26, 2026 @05:41PM (#47536158)
Read about the paradox of tolerance.

I'm not saying you unalive your opposition, but you do need to make them suffer consequences if they push the boundaries to get what they want.

Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by fc417fc802 on Thursday March 26, 2026 @10:14PM (#47538399)
A cheap justification for violating one's professed ideals.
Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by lenerdenator on Friday March 27, 2026 @07:19PM (#47549650)
Not really. Did democratic nations violate their ideals when they fought Nazi Germany in WWII?

After all, Hitler did come to power democratically. He made it very clear what he wanted to do, and the Weimar government didn't stop him, thinking that they could just have voters see through his act. How'd that turn out?

Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by fc417fc802 on Friday March 27, 2026 @11:08PM (#47551187)
An empty rebuttal. If the US democratically - by popular vote - decided to annex Canada would that mean Canadians waging war against the US or allies that stepped in to help them were going against the ideals of liberalism? There's no paradox to be had there. It is entirely possible for multiple liberal parties to disagree and end up at war.

Where people like to apply that phrase is when handling domestic affairs in a blatantly hypocritical manner. Such as banning certain speech, publications, or political activities while still claiming to honor the tenants of liberalism. In that context it's nothing more than a fig leaf to cover for one's own lack of integrity.

Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by mmooss on Thursday March 26, 2026 @10:09PM (#47538357)
This perspective, not unique to the parent, assumes you have to play defense indefinitely, but (as with many beliefs) the assumption is the problem: Stop playing defense and go on offense.

Pass laws that actively enhance privacy, that make it technically (e.g., require E2EE) and legally harder to surveil citizens, that require data minimization, that impose retention limits, that require higher standards for accessing surveillance content (e.g., warrants); pass amendments to constitutions, etc. How do you think current privacy protections happened in the first place?

Going on offense not only improves privacy, it forces the other side to use their resources playing defense and trying to keep up.

The 'one battle after another' defensive perspective is for people who have half-quit (I'm not talking about the parent here, but more generally). It fits the culture of despair that permeates every political grouping but the far right - they have plenty of initiative and creativity, and certainly don't hold back and play defense. You can do that too.

Maybe a more familiar analogy: It also fits the behavior of exhausted status quo market participants, companies that have lost their drive and innovation and are hanging onto their old ways instead of aggressively moving forward.

Re:End of "Chat Control": EU Parliament Stops Mass Surveilla... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday March 26, 2026 @10:47PM (#47538593)
> Going on offense not only improves privacy, it forces the other side to use their resources play defense and trying to keep up

One thousand percent.