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Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by hrimfaxi on Monday March 16, 2026 @09:09AM (#47398528)
> insider trading is the point

Says who?

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by Ajedi32 on Monday March 16, 2026 @09:13AM (#47398572)
It's in the name: Prediction market. The point is to predict an outcome, insiders will naturally be better at that than non-insiders.

Though I think where things start to get a bit more insidious is when the "insiders" have access not merely to inside information, but the ability to change the outcome. That type of insider trading should be banned IMO because it works against the purpose of prediction markets as a tool. (Though the extent to which banning that is possible though is debatable.)

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by hrimfaxi on Monday March 16, 2026 @09:31AM (#47398788)
Who cares what they call themselves? They're not prediction markets, they are just gambling on events. The "point" of prediction markets is not an accurate prediction in the same sense that the "point" of sports betting isn't that your bet means the team will win.
Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by Ajedi32 on Monday March 16, 2026 @09:40AM (#47398914)
Betting markets are actually pretty good at predicting the outcomes of sports games. But you're correct that that's not the point of those markets; accurately predicting the outcome of a sports game has no real-world value, people are just placing bets for their personal entertainment.

Accurately predicting the outcome of a war, election, or other nationally important event though can potentially have immense value.

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by hrimfaxi on Monday March 16, 2026 @10:20AM (#47399435)
> Accurately predicting the outcome of a war, election, or other nationally important event though can potentially have immense value.

I don't contest that, but again, you haven't explained why "predictions" is the point of prediction markets. People place bets on things they want to be true as much as things they believe to be true. They can market themselves as whatever they like but no one has made a case that this is any different from sports betting.

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by mr_00ff00 on Monday March 16, 2026 @10:57AM (#47399900)
It’s different because the prediction markets companies don’t make money on spreads. You aren’t betting against the house. Sports betting, every bet you take has a house edge.

Polymarket, for example, makes money on the data. So it must be worth something because people are paying for that predication data. They don’t take a slice of the winnings.

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by hrimfaxi on Monday March 16, 2026 @11:07AM (#47400013)
Platforms like polymarket can be used to bet on the outcome of sporting events. Does the fact that you are betting against another bettor change that from sports betting to a prediction market? If I am playing poker am I still gambling even if the house is just another player in the hand?
Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by mr_00ff00 on Monday March 16, 2026 @12:35PM (#47401239)
Yeah I guess that’s fair, but I wouldn’t say that predictions aren’t the point of the market. My point was more that the predictions must be the point, because people are paying polymarket to get that data.

They don’t make money by taking a spread, they make it by providing information.

And people bet on emotion for sure, but “wisdom of crowds” suggests that generally that will balance out to somewhat accurate odds.

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by atmavatar on Monday March 16, 2026 @09:35AM (#47398843)
That isn't very convincing, as the stock market itself is largely a prediction market. People buy stock to bet on future success, whether that manifest in the form of stock price increases, splits, and/or dividends. It's merely a much more narrowly-focused prediction market.

For that very reason, insider knowledge, and especially the ability to influence future outcomes, become the subject of heavy regulation. And, the lack of such regulation for congressional members is also why their net worth tends to skyrocket once entering office.

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by Ajedi32 on Monday March 16, 2026 @10:02AM (#47399181)
That's fair. Insofar as the purpose of the stock market is to allocate capital to companies the market predicts are most likely to succeed, you could argue that trading stocks based on insider information should be legal (though not insider trading by those with the ability to influence outcomes).

But I think the way our current system solves this is by forcing companies to disclose important insider information to shareholders all at once, rather than by letting insiders profit by leaking the information through their market transactions. (The one possibly being related to the other, because insiders who could legally profit by keeping information secret rather than disclose it would be incentivised to do so.) I don't think a similar restriction is feasible for prediction markets, because often the thing you're trying to predict is not something that can be legally cajoled into giving up its secrets.

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by jpfromlondon on Monday March 16, 2026 @10:21AM (#47399440)
>you could argue that trading stocks based on insider information should be legal

Before Salman vs US (2016) it basically was, how do you think the oracle made bank?

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by myrmidon on Monday March 16, 2026 @01:09PM (#47401767)
I'd argue that the "purpose" of the stock market is matching investors with companies that want liquidity. Allowing insider trading hurts the purpose by driving away non-insider trading participants, and it does not really help in any way.

With prediction markets, the "purpose" is information discovery, and "insider trading" actually helps (=> via information from insiders).

Disclaimer: I'm somewhat playing devils advocate here, I personally think that prediction markets are for now mostly an ineffective zero-sum game (and legalized gambling with all the drawbacks that brings).

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by Joker_vD on Monday March 16, 2026 @01:31PM (#47402051)
> I'd argue that the "purpose" of the stock market is matching investors with companies that want liquidity.

But you don't usually buy the stocks from the company itself, do you? Unless there is some shenanigans with buyouts going on...

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by hrimfaxi on Monday March 16, 2026 @01:52PM (#47402356)
Companies can issue new shares to take advantage of positive public sentiment.
Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by TimPC on Monday March 16, 2026 @10:03AM (#47399189)
It's easier to define safeguards and the definition of inside information for stock markets than for prediction markets though. There is plenty of information that should ban someone from prediction markets that also wouldn't meet the definition of material non-public information.
Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by cleverfoo on Monday March 16, 2026 @10:05AM (#47399226)
that's a very shallow analogy as the stock market has significantly stronger guardrails to curtain insider trading including fines and jail time these companies lack. But even if you were to bring prediction markets under the purview of the FTC, it would still not be a functioning regulatory scheme since the scope of prediction markets is just so much larger - you can bet on anything.
Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by monero-xmr on Monday March 16, 2026 @09:17AM (#47398625)
If I use a drone to look over a fence to count the amount of inputs and outputs of a factory, and only I know this, it is perfectly legal for me to trade on it. Not insider trading! I'm just a really good information-finder and I'm morally just in how clever I am at finding an edge.

If I work at the company and count the inputs and outputs, and trade on it, I am a morally bankrupt scumbag and I have hurt society and all of the traders in the market.

Hmmmmmmm

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by MarkusQ on Monday March 16, 2026 @10:13AM (#47399343)
If you work at the company you have almost certainly signed an agreement not to disclose such information; if you do so, you are violating the agreement. But that isn't insider trading.

If you hold a position of fiduciary responsibility within the company (or gain information from someone who does) that's a different matter. But the analogy there would be hacking into the company to read internal records, not just looking over a fence. in both cases, it's a crime.

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by nilamo on Monday March 16, 2026 @09:36AM (#47398856)
Yes that is correct. Or if you're a player on a team, you could just... tank a game.
Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by KPGv2 on Monday March 16, 2026 @09:45AM (#47398966)
This is a troll post, and I'll bite.

The reason insider trading is illegal is because it undermines confidence in the markets by establishing a pattern by which insiders with privileged, secret information leverage it to profit off people who cannot access this information.

It also incentivizes insiders to leverage their position within a company to manipulate the business in order to profit. This also undermines integrity of markets.

Your second example, setting aside all your troll bait inflammatory verbiage about moral bankruptcy, is an illustration of this risk. I don't care if it rises to the level of moral bankruptcy, it is harmful to a capitalist society in a serious way.

Your first example is a depiction of someone leveraging information that anyone can gather. It does not undermine the integrity of markets because it is just an investor acting on publicly-accessible information.

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by rwmj on Monday March 16, 2026 @10:48AM (#47399789)
Correct, but they can access the information as soon as it is revealed.

Consider the case where a company knows that the drug they are selling is dangerous but keeps it a secret. Insiders know of the dangers and so bet against the company in the market (obviously this is illegal right now). The insiders make a profit in the short term, and investors also in the short term lose out (which they were going to do anyway, the losses come sooner), but in the long term the secret information is revealed to the benefit of everybody.

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by KPGv2 on Wednesday March 18, 2026 @10:54PM (#47434320)
I don't see how this is responsive to what I wrote. Are you arguing that insider trading is no big deal? If so, what you're actually saying is "insider trading is no big deal because eventually bad information does reach the public."

But I never said insider trading was bad because it caused people to keep information a secret. You're responding to an argument I didn't make.

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by monero-xmr on Monday March 16, 2026 @10:39AM (#47399663)
I don’t see the harm of insider trading. I would make the trades public and mark someone as an insider. The “cat and mouse” game played now leaves for endless suspicion
Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by hananova on Monday March 16, 2026 @09:34AM (#47398827)
Or a reasonable door number three: Trading on it should not be allowed, without exception.
Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by baq on Monday March 16, 2026 @09:29AM (#47398763)
disagreeing with this statement is admitting it's gambling and not a market.
Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by ordinaryradical on Monday March 16, 2026 @10:52AM (#47399837)
> Robin Hanson, the economist who’s commonly known as the godfather of modern prediction markets, thinks that using inside information to place bets like this is actually necessary for these markets to work—making “insider trading” a feature, not a bug.

> “The point of these markets is to get information, so the only reason you should ever be trading on them is if you think you have some information,” said Hanson, a professor of economics at George Mason University whose academic work inspired the founders of prediction markets Polymarket and Kalshi. “People with more information should trade more and get more money because that's how they get paid for the information they contribute.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciapark/2026/01/09/why-predi...

Seems like you should read more about these markets.

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by hrimfaxi on Monday March 16, 2026 @11:15AM (#47400134)
How is it at all a prediction if someone has insider knowledge? That's not a prediction that is knowing the facts. If I'm Trump and decide to capture Maduro tomorrow and then I bet on that happening, what did I predict? If someone close to me who knows my plans bets on it, what did they predict? That I will follow through on my word?
Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by kasey_junk on Monday March 16, 2026 @11:32AM (#47400357)
You externalized the answer to the question. That’s _the point_ of prediction markets.

What you are describing is governmental corruption and that should be handled via corruption laws not insider trading laws.

Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by variadix on Monday March 16, 2026 @11:58AM (#47400732)
Insiders bring information to a market. Intelligent analysis and prediction also does, but obviously insiders have special information they are incentivized to bring to the market. Most people placing these bets are simply gambling, insiders and analysts at least have rational reasons for placing bets and add information to the market.
Re:Polymarket gamblers threaten to kill me over Iran missile... by Terr_ on Monday March 16, 2026 @01:25PM (#47401983)
> Insiders bring information to a market [...] special information they are incentivized to bring

Simultaneously: Insiders have power to coerce an outcome, the market creates a corrupt payoff for them to abuse that power.