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Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by throw0101c on Wednesday January 28, 2026 @08:14PM (#46804374)
> Nonviolent crowd control does not seem to be a core competence of these federal forces.

Why is crowd control even needed?

ICE existed for many, many years before now, and them doing their job never caused crowds previously (under both R and D administrations), so what (rhetorically) changed?

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by estearum on Wednesday January 28, 2026 @08:27PM (#46804486)
Oh this is easy: a gigantic funding increase is being used to massively expand workforce with minimal training, then that workforce is being deployed with an ambiguous mission and apparent arrest quotas, while also being told they’re immune from any criminal liability for their actions (they’re not), including internal memos telling them they’re allowed to enter private homes without judicial warrants (they’re not), and a SCOTUS decision that is being represented to mean that racial profiling is legal now (it's not)

Deploying literal hordes of poorly trained, well-armed men onto American streets with explicit guidance that runs directly contrary to the US Constitution's plain text can, will, and SHOULD attract crowds in opposition.

Hope that helps!

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by steveBK123 on Thursday January 29, 2026 @07:55AM (#46809555)
It's completely intentional choice by the Miller/Noem wing of the admin to create media drama and "own the libs", overriding the Homan wing which was pushing for easy wins rounding up known criminal offenders in custody / in red states / etc.
Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by toast0 on Wednesday January 28, 2026 @08:45PM (#46804618)
Didn't ICE and predecessor organizations do workplace raids? Maybe that's not as big of a crowd, but it's still a crowd. I think they would tend to do workplace raids in concert with the FBI.
Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by solid_fuel on Wednesday January 28, 2026 @08:53PM (#46804686)
There's a big difference between seeing an immigration raid where you know whoever gets picked up is going to have access to a lawyer, be subject to proper due process, and at worst be sent back to their home country. We knew - or at least believed - that if they detained someone who was a citizen, that person would be released.

Now, when we see ICE grabbing someone, we know that person probably won't have access to legal representation even if they are here legally, even if they're a citizen. We know they might be sent to a concentration camp in a foreign country they aren't from, and we know they might even get murdered in the street. It's a very different dynamic.

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by hubber on Wednesday January 28, 2026 @09:39PM (#46805054)
None of this is true if you just comply. I have zero fear of any of this happening to me. And I'll celebrate with my lawyer if it does.

There are tens of millions of people in the country illegally. They must go. The one time the government actually does its job and we have lunatics putting their lives on the line to interfere!? I don't understand it. Just let them get the job done.

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by text0404 on Wednesday January 28, 2026 @11:09PM (#46805721)
Exactly. Comply with the armed men and you won't die. Compliance is required for a healthy society. Just comply and you won't be hurt. Compliance is required for a functioning society. Comply and purge society of undesirables. Even if your rights are violated, comply or you will be hurt. Remember America's slogans: land of the free, home of the brave if you comply with the masked mens' orders. Remember the hacker ethos: compliance with the government is required for your safety. Otherwise, you are engaging in domestic terrorism and will be dealt with swiftly by anonymous agents of the state.
Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by hubber on Thursday January 29, 2026 @01:01AM (#46806355)
Yes.

If someone was robbing a bank, and a lunatic started interfering with law enforcement attempting to apprehend the suspect, wouldn't you expect the lunatic to be dealt with? What do you want to happen?

There are tens of millions of foreigners in the country illegally. They are actively committing a crime against the citizens of the US. I expect law enforcement to apprehend and remove them (it's nice that this is finally starting to happen!) and I expect any lunatics abetting the criminals to be reasonably dealt with.

You're sympathizing with the wrong people. You're championing criminals. You're advocating evil.

You might have more sway if the government's actions were immoral - if the lunatics were "the good guys" - but it's the first time in a while they're actually doing something right. Get out of their way.

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by subdude on Thursday January 29, 2026 @01:34AM (#46806572)
The only lunatics in this scenario are the ones executing people in the street and dragging children out of their homes and into concentration camps as well as the people who think that's all reasonable. It's entirely reasonable, and right, to resist them.

"They are actively committing a crime against the citizens of the US." What crime? You are confused if you think being an undocumented immigrant is a crime in it of itself. It's not, despite the right's attempts to paint them as "illegal." And, even if it were a crime, that doesn't suddenly make it "evil" or something that victimizes the "citizens of the US." The law is not the arbiter of good and evil, and very often it's on the side of evil. Miscegenation was a crime. Sodomy was a crime. Those acts were no more evil then than they are now.

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by hubber on Thursday January 29, 2026 @01:47AM (#46806661)
You are siding with foreigners over the safety and prosperity of your own people. You are a xenophile. I fully support the government representing my interests by using justified violence against you and other traitors who work to harm my family and my people.
Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by blks on Thursday January 29, 2026 @03:19AM (#46807238)
So next time when they arrest you, thinking you’re an illegals immigrant, put you in jail for 2-4 weeks, without access to a lawyer or even a phone call, and then release, will you be stretching your neck to make it more comfortable for them to tread on it?
Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by subdude on Thursday January 29, 2026 @02:13AM (#46806805)
lol, "your people." I've seen enough of you guys in real life to know what lies behind the bold Nazi larp online. Meek, resentful, small men. You may piss your pants at the sight of a non-white person, but 99% of people don't. Nothing you hope for or think is going to happen will happen. The world you yearn for never existed and never will. Much like every other fascist movement in history, the current one will only be remembered as a pathetic failure.
Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by text0404 on Thursday January 29, 2026 @01:18AM (#46806472)
Truly ridiculous. I briefly wondered if you actually believe this rhetoric, but then I saw your three-day-old account.

Not going to debate with someone who doesn't have the courage to stand behind their convictions. Your account is a throwaway and only exists to launder white supremacist talking points. Best of luck with your new American government, we all know it ended well for the leaders of Italy and Germany.

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by hubber on Thursday January 29, 2026 @01:49AM (#46806678)
This is my only account. I make a new one every few days. I'm not hiding anything but sane voices are quickly shadow banned here.

Thankyou for that. Indeed, we have a job to finish! Heil H.

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by UncleMeat on Thursday January 29, 2026 @03:38AM (#46807378)
Ernesto Miranda was a criminal. Nevertheless, we have Miranda rights.
Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by deeg on Wednesday January 28, 2026 @10:12PM (#46805312)
If you aren't afraid you must be white. ICE has been arresting citizens because they fit racial profiles: https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-immigration-us-citizen-...
Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by subdude on Wednesday January 28, 2026 @10:15PM (#46805330)
"There are tens of millions of people in the country illegally. They must go."

Why?

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by estearum on Wednesday January 28, 2026 @09:58PM (#46805207)
Huh? We have no reason to believe e.g. Kilmar Abrego Garcia was non-compliant in any way with anything, and he was sent to a foreign torture prison without access to a lawyer, without being charged with a crime, without being afforded basic rights that everyone (citizen or not) has under the US Constitution.

We have numerous examples of people who have followed all legal procedures and have legal status in the US who were likewise denied basic Constitutional protections.

Here are a few relevant sources:

https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2025-04/FIRE%20Ozt...

https://www.cato.org/blog/50-venezuelans-imprisoned-el-salva...

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by throw0101c on Wednesday January 28, 2026 @10:30PM (#46805449)
> And I'll celebrate with my lawyer if it does.

LOL. Why do you assume you'll get a hearing?

As Timothy Snyder (an historian of Central and Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union, and the Holocaust) observed last year:

> If you accept that non-citizens have no right to due process, you are accepting that citizens have no right to due process. All the government has to do is claim that you are not a citizen; without due process you have no chance to prove the contrary.

* https://xcancel.com/TimothyDSnyder/status/190429656556234343...

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by estearum on Wednesday January 28, 2026 @10:47PM (#46805592)
It's truly unbelievable how many allegedly intelligent people fail to grasp this basic corollary of their beliefs.

"Well I'll get due process because I just need to say I'm a citizen!"

Bro... to whom do you say that? When? In what forum? That is literally the entire point of contention!

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by hubber on Thursday January 29, 2026 @01:06AM (#46806387)
>Timothy Snyder (an historian of Central and Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union, and the Holocaust)

lmao

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by estearum on Thursday January 29, 2026 @07:32AM (#46809312)
The source of this particular quote is irrelevant, how about you engage with the simple logical structure being put in front of you?
Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by deeg on Wednesday January 28, 2026 @10:16PM (#46805343)
Because ICE has gone way beyond arresting illegals. In Boston, for example, they stopped a naturalization ceremony literally minutes before people were to become citizens. Do you support that?

https://www.wcvb.com/article/21-citizenship-oaths-canceled-f...

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by etchalon on Wednesday January 28, 2026 @11:07PM (#46805709)
Bigotry, mostly. It's usually bigotry.
Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by jaredklewis on Thursday January 29, 2026 @01:18AM (#46806471)
Well they didn’t wear masks and grab people off the street and shoved them into unmarked vans under previous administrations.
Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by Jsebast24 on Thursday January 29, 2026 @07:08AM (#46809111)
Previous administrations were the ones who opened the borders to allow millions of people to come in illegally. They are the ones who created the problem that this administration is working to solve.
Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by locopati on Thursday January 29, 2026 @08:22AM (#46809862)
Is it really a problem though?
Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by mritterhoff on Thursday January 29, 2026 @08:57AM (#46810258)
It seems to be, given how many people voted for "mass deportations".

It also makes it easier for employers to get away with poor working conditions for those workers.

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by estearum on Thursday January 29, 2026 @08:22AM (#46809871)
Nope. While there was a large increase in immigrant inflows, there is no evidence their enforcement decisions were significantly different than e.g. Trump 1.

What the statistics actually show is that the United States was a far more attractive destination for immigrants under Biden, but that enforcement policies were largely the same. That makes sense since enforcement policy is mostly set by Congress and not by POTUS.

The increased appeal of the US is entirely explained by the fact that the US economy was excelling far beyond any country in the world, and especially any country in the western hemisphere. At the same time, Central and South America were getting hit by successive political and economic shocks amplified by COVID.

The significant reduction in immigrants towards the tail end of Biden is not because they suddenly decided to "follow the law" and "close the border." It's that they decided NOT to follow the law anymore and to unilaterally ignore the asylum laws that Congress actually sets.

This was later struck down in court: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/district-court-strikes-d...

So really what you're seeing is the difference between the US being a desirable place to come to versus an undesirable one. I'm sympathetic to the argument that there's moral hazard involved in making the US appear to be highly desirable to people who we don't want to accept, but I'm not sympathetic at all to the view that that means the executive can simply ignore whatever laws they want, or they can turn the US into such a dystopian hellhole that only the most desperate immigrants around would bother attempting entry.

Some additional sources:

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/biden-deportation-re...

https://www.cato.org/blog/data-show-trump-wouldve-released-m...

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by ndsipa_pomu on Thursday January 29, 2026 @04:50AM (#46807924)
They were co-opted to function as Trump's death squads to kill dissidents
Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by JKCalhoun on Thursday January 29, 2026 @10:48AM (#46811758)
I think it changed when I saw they were sending people to (apparently rape/torture) prisons in El Salvador with no due process.
Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by mindslight on Thursday January 29, 2026 @11:12AM (#46812179)
Exactly. There should be no crowd control, because they shouldn't be interacting with the American public except as fellow citizens. If someone commits a crime against them, they can turn the details over to the local police for enforcement of assault, etc.

At this point after how they've been operating, they shouldn't even be allowed to carry weapons. No guns, no grenades, no pepper spray, no masks to escape accountability. These are supposed to be public servants, they should be accountable to the public. If someone they're trying to apprehend reacts violently then they can escalate the situation to the local police or maybe the FBI after the federal agencies do the work of regaining the public trust.

Re:In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration... by claudiulodro on Thursday January 29, 2026 @12:51PM (#46813684)
Before now, ICE was primarily paperwork police. Border patrol and occasional visits to round up undocumented immigrants at factories still existed, but the vast majority of their job was related to like customs and visa forms. It's like hiring 10x the postal workers and giving them guns and "qualified immunity" -- you're going to get some new problems.