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Re:All the Way Down by IsTom on Thursday December 04, 2025 @05:58AM (#46146170)
> What's the motivation or goal? And why that goal is pursued? What is the force behind seeking of that goal?

There's no force and there's no goal. These things happen because every moment is a direct consequence of the previous one.

Re:All the Way Down by lo_zamoyski on Thursday December 04, 2025 @06:35AM (#46146440)
> there's no goal

Try talking about biological operations without invoking “function”. Claiming it’s “convenient” to do so doesn’t cut it: convenient for what?

Why do acorns become oak trees? They must be causally ordered toward that end. That’s telos.

Even efficient causality presupposes telos. Why does striking a match against a matchbox consistently produce fire? Because the match has a causal ordering toward that end. Otherwise, you could not explain why fire consistently results as opposed to random things like a flock of seagulls or a BMW 7 Series…or nothing at all.

Telos is not necessarily a matter of some external purpose or Paley-style watchmaker. That’s mechanistic metaphysics appealing to a watchmaker to explain a purpose things would - under that metaphysics - inherently lack. It is a matter of causal order and directedness.

Re:All the Way Down by IsTom on Thursday December 04, 2025 @07:56AM (#46147137)
> Try talking about biological operations without invoking “function”.

If you had a strong vendetta against mistaking map for territory, you could very well talk in terms of past survival and statistics. It's just not necessary for regular biological talk. It becomes relevant only when you start going to the boundaries.

> Why does striking a match against a matchbox consistently produce fire?

Because you wouldn't call these objects a "match" and a "matchbox" otherwise.

Re:All the Way Down by ryandamm on Thursday December 04, 2025 @07:27AM (#46146891)
This is a good, succinct unpacking of the metaphysical stakes. Nonetheless I am curious for the world where striking a match results in a shower of seagulls.
Re:All the Way Down by yetihehe on Thursday December 04, 2025 @07:16AM (#46146811)
Universal goal of life: make more life.