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Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by mothballed on Friday November 14, 2025 @02:53PM (#45931388)
If goons are killing your for having an app you don't need more apps, you need a gun.
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by cardanome on Friday November 14, 2025 @03:18PM (#45931687)
You are right but as German if I made that point publicly in regards to Palestine I would get arrested. I am not exaggerating

It is crazy how we have dehumanized Palestinians to the point that just hinting on the fact that they might have a right to resist it completely taboo. Like you don't have to agree with their methods but expecting them to do nothing while Israel murders them and the world looks away is such a cruelty that is hard to comprehend.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by Sabinus on Friday November 14, 2025 @03:33PM (#45931850)
I don't know about that, if settlers in the West Bank cop some violence then that's going to be considered well deserved.

Soldiers of 'a government' committing murder, rape and hostage taking on a music festival is going to earn you a bit of looking away to the consequences.

I don't expect them to do nothing, I expect them to come to a deal not sacrifice everything in an eternal and vain attempt to remove Israel from the map.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by cardanome on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:07PM (#45932218)
> I don't expect them to do nothing, I expect them to come to a deal

Well that is what they did. People like you told shite like "The war ends if they release the hostages".

They agreed to the first step of the peace plan. They released the hostages. They are keeping the truce. (Israel claims they killed a few soldiers but that seem to be a lie, they probably died from explosive that were already lying around).

So what did it gain them? Israels keeps murdering them. People are still starving in Gaza because Israel refuses to let food in.

> committing murder, rape and hostage taking

This is what Israel has been doing for decades. We just call the hostages prisoners.

While the Palestinians have treated their hostages as well as they could even when Gaza was starving, the bodies of the dead political prisoners Israel gave back were so mutilated from systemic torture that not even family members are able to recognize them.

As for the accusation of the resistance committing systemic rape, that is just racist propaganda. Same when they justified the lynching of black people in the US with saying they raped white women. We would have video evidence if something like that had happened.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by nandomrumber on Friday November 14, 2025 @06:48PM (#45933558)
> Palestinians have treated their hostages as well as they could

82 of the 251 hostages taken by Hamas on Oct 7th were killed.

Give ‘em hell Netanyahu.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by cardanome on Friday November 14, 2025 @06:54PM (#45933598)
Who killed them? Israeli bombs.

Netanyahu cares more about murdering Palestinians than saving his own people.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by soulofmischief on Friday November 14, 2025 @06:56PM (#45933605)
It's either a gross ignorance or gross deceit to compare those numbers to the amount of civilians who have been killed during the Palestinian genocide. A terrorist attack doesn't give you the right to ignore human rights.

The international criminal court has an arrest warrant for Netanyahu. He is a war criminal. Get your facts straight.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by nandomrumber on Saturday November 15, 2025 @12:33AM (#45935297)
The Genocide of Israelis by Hamas rarely gets a mention.

Why is that?

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Killing members of the group;

Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by soulofmischief on Saturday November 15, 2025 @01:14AM (#45935436)
You're not going to justify colonial genocide with whataboutism. It wasn't OK when the US did it and then called natives savages as a defense for our inhuman treatment of them, and it's not OK now that Israel is doing it. No amount of whining about Hamas will change that, especially considering Netanyahu openly funded Hamas through Qatar. You act like this conflict hasn't been perpetuated for decades. It's manufactured consent, plain and simple.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up...

Hamas' actions are easily condemnable and doesn't need a mention, the only people who can't seem to understand that are the same people who seem to have a problem condemning Israel's actions. It is extremely easy to condemn both of them at once, if you start from an ethical, secular foundation.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by nandomrumber on Saturday November 15, 2025 @04:59AM (#45936338)
I’m not interested in condemning Israel’s actions.

What radicalised me was inadvertently catching ten seconds of the killings at that Israeli dance music festival / bush doof.

Palestinians could put Hamas down in an afternoon, if they wanted to.

Whatever it takes.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by soulofmischief on Saturday November 15, 2025 @10:16AM (#45937974)
Lol. This same mentality is professed by those you wish to condemn. You reveal yourself to be no better than the monsters you seek to destroy. You're willing to kill civilian women and children and men in order to do it.

You're willing to blame a people for the actions of a terrorist government that Israel/Netanyahu themselves propped up, something you didn't even bother to deny.

You're an absolute joke. Your consent is manufactured, and you're so lazy and brainwashed that you don't even care that you're a pawn.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by nandomrumber on Saturday November 15, 2025 @04:14PM (#45940659)
How do you prove your understanding of the situation isn’t manufactured?

Is it because Greta Thunberg is on your side? I could understand that, she’s quite pretty.

Is it your manufactured guilt over something you didn’t do, to people that didn’t have jt happen to them?

Or is it because you are what happens when children are raised by three generations of fatherless homes?

Ask yourself, what would happen if Israel said it would lay down its arms and fight no longer, vs. what would happen if Palestinians did the same.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by soulofmischief on Saturday November 15, 2025 @10:14PM (#45942464)
Israel has zero justification for its colonial occupation. Colonial occupation is unjustifiable. I don't care what cult religious "right" Israel thinks it has that allows it to occupy and genocide a group of people, and then dare to call those people the violent savages.

America did the same thing. It was called Manifest Destiny. Americans were convinced they had a God-given right to subjugate, colonize and genocide the native American people.

How do I know my understanding of the situation isn't manufactured? I have the capability to research history and have independent thoughts. Your attempt to patronize and belittle me is a poor stand-in for an actual rebuttal. All you've offered me is , "b-b-buT WhAT iF uR WrONg?".

I also don't know what you're talking about "fatherless homes", I was indeed raised without a father and still seem to be a much better representative of what it means to be a man than someone who justifies the mass killing of innocent women and children over a manufactured terrorist strike. You speak from a place of privilege and ignorance. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by nandomrumber on Sunday November 16, 2025 @12:19AM (#45942972)
What would I need to read / watch to be convinced that October 7th was a false flag / manufactured incident?
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by soulofmischief on Sunday November 16, 2025 @12:38AM (#45943036)
I didn't insinuate it was a false flag, but that it was a natural result of an ongoing manufactured conflict designed for consolidation of power.

Have you read the article I linked in a prior message and attempted to corroborate or disprove its contents?

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by nandomrumber on Sunday November 16, 2025 @02:43AM (#45943444)
This one?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up...

I don’t know what you think it’s trying to say, but I will admit that my own ideological bent probably makes it read a lot differently to you.

I have a half-non-serious idea that these small scale wars (compared to WWI / II) that pop up around the world from time to time occur to maintain at least some state of force-readiness and to make use of ordnance with a limited shelf life. Everything else is just a ruse, and people like you and myself are unwittingly divided over meaningless conflict in far off lands, and would probably get along really well as colleagues or friends.

Thanks for continuing the conversation and not getting triggered by my probably immature responses. I do think Jesse Lee Peterson does have a point though.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by soulofmischief on Sunday November 16, 2025 @03:35PM (#45948174)
> I have a half-non-serious idea that these small scale wars (compared to WWI / II) that pop up around the world from time to time occur to maintain at least some state of force-readiness and to make use of ordnance with a limited shelf life.

That's a key pillar of the Western Military–industrial complex.

> Everything else is just a ruse, and people like you and myself are unwittingly divided over meaningless conflict in far off lands, and would probably get along really well as colleagues or friends.

Sometimes, but energy/resource wars are real. Wars and regime changes to get access to specific resources or ensure labor/resources stay dirt cheap for first-world countries at the expensive of meager to destitute quality of life for those living in such areas, producing the goods we consume. The neoliberal imperial economic machine.

A good current example is the situation in Venezuela, where Trump is suddenly pretending to care about the quality of life of their citizens, and lying about the volume of drugs produced there, when the real story is the gigantic oil deposits that Trump's benefactors want to regain access to.

The other problem is that innocent people have died, and at scale, and the checks and bombs are signed by the US. It's not even just Palestine. There was Cablegate, if you remember, the infamous helicopter video, public documentation of the way that civilians are treated in these proxy wars.

Just in the last month, in Darfur, we've seen so much bloodshed that you could see pools of blood and dead bodies from orbiting satellites. An amount of people rivaling entire body count of the number of people killed since the recent Israeli invasion of Palestine, killed in less than a week, slaughtered like pigs... and various Western governments have their fingers all over this war, too, funding and arming factions both directly and indirectly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/11/15/sudan-el-fas...

And Netanyahu is no different here. He knew exactly what would happen. We'd all watched what happened when the US funded rebel groups that ended up seeding what became Al-Qaeda, our refusal to address real concerns levied by the group, to ignore increasing threats of action draw attention to the international crimes of the US. Then, even when faced with evidence that something like 9/11 was likely to occur, we just continued business as usual and let it happen, immediately pulled out the Patiot Act, which was promoted by Bush but based on earlier legislation penned by Biden himself, because one should never waste a good tragedy. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/andrewkaczynski/surveil...

Then we invaded the Middle East and for what? Oil. It took 25 years for us to disengage, and the Taliban took over Afghanistan once we left, so we've only increased the level of fascist governance in the world.

Netanyahu's war is a mockery of human life, and there is a reason the International Criminal Court has a warrant for his arrest, and why the Imperial US continues to cover for him.

https://www.icc-cpi.int/defendant/netanyahu

> Thanks for continuing the conversation and not getting triggered by my probably immature responses. I do think Jesse Lee Peterson does have a point though.

I don't know much of him except that he's a religious zealot white nationalist conservative, what point do you refer to? Was it something he said about Palestine, or about conflict?

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by nandomrumber on Monday November 17, 2025 @09:25PM (#45960713)
You make some not entirely unreasonable points that I tend to agree with.

If you don’t know much about a person how do you know they’re a religious zealot white nationalist conservative?

Because of what someone else told you?

Fatherless homes.

That’s how women tend to act when they feel they’ve been slight: straight for the reputation.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by dlubarov on Friday November 14, 2025 @09:35PM (#45934576)
> They released the hostages

The deal included remains of deceased hostages, most of which were not released at the agreed 48 hour point.

> they probably died from explosive that were already lying around

The source behind this theory seemed to be a tweet claiming "I’m told by a source familiar", and another tweet which was explicitly speculating ("most likely due to an explosive device ..."). No evidence was offered.

> While the Palestinians have treated their hostages as well as they could even when Gaza was starving

A UN envoy found "clear and convincing information that some [hostages] have been subjected to various forms of conflict-related sexual violence including rape and sexualized torture and sexualized cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment".

Evyatar David also appeared to be the most severely malnourished adult in Gaza, while being forced to dig his own grave.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by zhengiszen on Friday November 14, 2025 @03:38PM (#45931901)
What about a society glorifying children murder and rape on prisoners of war ?
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by ngruhn on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:07PM (#45932217)
> but as German if I made that point publicly in regards to Palestine I would get arrested. I am not exaggerating

What are you talking about? I'm also German but nobody is getting arrested here for that. I literally walked past a pro Palestine protests 1h ago.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by cardanome on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:17PM (#45932306)
They are regularly arresting people and police brutality has gotten so bad that even the international press is taking note:

> Irish officials express 'concern' after Irish protestor left bloodied by police in Berlin

https://www.irishpost.com/news/irish-officials-express-conce...

> Footage circulating on X shows police using brute force to push back protesters, with at least 28 people arrested, according to police reports.

https://www.humanrightsresearch.org/post/crackdown-on-pro-pa...

> Udi Raz, 34, is sitting in a cafe in Berlin, where he lives, reflecting on a turbulent six months. Since Israel’s war on Gaza began following the Hamas-led attacks of 7 October, Raz, an Israeli Jew raised in Haifa, has been fired from his job and had the activist group he’s part of labelled antisemitic by Germany’s official antisemitism commissioner.

> Last Friday, German authorities arrested Raz, a board member of Jewish Voice for a Just Peace in the Middle East, after they cancelled and then banned the group’s three-day conference on Palestine.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/germany-crackdown-israel-...

Yes, even Jewish people are labeled anti-semites, it is that insane.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by ngruhn on Friday November 14, 2025 @09:56PM (#45934672)
Ok so the Irish guy got punched in the face after doing that:

> as O'Brien is seen calling officers 'genocide supporters' and accusing one of 'acting like a Nazi'.

If you scream at peoples faces and insult them, you risk getting punched in the face. Police or not. Would be more professional to ignore that. But this is not a state systematically coming after you for voicing opinions. If you want to see a real example of that, look no further than Hamas.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:07PM (#45932210)
"they might have a right to resist "

How do you define this?

Killing Israel soldiers.

Or killing hundreds of civilians at a concert and parading the dead body of a young woman around like a hunting trophy like Hamas did on Oct 7 2023?

The main problem is that Palestinians think they can defeat Israel with force but they can't.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by jeromegv on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:24PM (#45932362)
> How do you define this?

Would you not try to resist if you were to live in an open-air prison like Gaza?

What if you lived in the West Bank and someone came to knock on your door and tell you that settlers were now taking over your land your family has lived in for hundreds of years and the bulldozer was coming the same afternoon to destroy your house, how would you react?

I never condone attacking civilians, but i can't reasonably understand what those people had to live through for decades while their neighbour get to go to the beach every weekend.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Friday November 14, 2025 @08:22PM (#45934210)
The only reason Gaza is a "prison" is because Hamas staged hundreds of suicide bombings from it.

ALL of the problems in Gaza are caused by Palestinians trying to defeat Israel with force when they simply can't.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by nailer on Friday November 14, 2025 @03:42PM (#45931942)
> Like you don't have to agree with their methods but expecting them to do nothing while Israel murders them

But Israel's not murdering them. The war has a very low civilian to combatant death ratio.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by shkkmo on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:21PM (#45932329)
Do you have a source for "very low"? It seems liks a hard thing to measure well but as far as I can see it looks very average.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by cardanome on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:24PM (#45932363)
According to the UN 70% of the dead are women and children

There are children with sniper bullets in their bodies.

This is not war, this is ethnic cleansing.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by nailer on Sunday November 16, 2025 @09:09AM (#45945264)
The UN pays for schools for children to be brainwashed into suicide to kill as many Israelis as possible via UNRWA - it is not a reliable source of information.
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by sa501428 on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:52PM (#45932606)
>80% of the dead are civilians. What world are you living in?

https://www.972mag.com/israeli-intelligence-database-83-perc...

(Journalist from Israel)

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by stirfish on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:45PM (#45932556)
>I would get arrested

Have you considered getting a gun? Why or why not?

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by shevy-java on Friday November 14, 2025 @03:20PM (#45931701)
Sadly most repressive states and apartheid systems control who has a gun.

You can see that in Russia (as one example of many more, mind you), where officials search through your apps on the smartphone, or worse, people being carried away by cops merely for holding up a blank piece of paper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbzV1it1YPY

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by elcritch on Friday November 14, 2025 @03:55PM (#45932081)
Exactly when a group like Hamas controls your home and brutally executes any dissidents or even suspected dissidents in public on a routine basis it’s difficult for any individual to fight back [1], almost worse is torture and maiming of anyone who even hints at “disloyalty” [2].

In such situations though encrypted messaging becomes crucial, but it’d be hard to hide.

Note: links are rather disturbing.

1: https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/15/world/video/hamas-killings-ga... 2: https://x.com/afalkhatib/status/1979752415973834965

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by ImPostingOnHN on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:03PM (#45932154)
Yeah, it must suck to get brutally JDAM'd (along with your whole family [0]), sniper-droned (seeking to main and kill [1]) and mown down by "gaza humanitarian foundation" machine-gun fire (while queueing for food) [2] in Palestine, just for disagreeing with israel's position that your land now belongs to them. If you're lucky, you won't be thrown into one of the rape-and-torture-camps [3].

But anyways, great submission and great work. Remember though, your cell phone signals will earn you a JDAM, because you might be a terrorist for using a cell phone. So stay on the move.

Warning: links are very disturbing:

0: https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/

1: https://www.npr.org/2024/11/19/nx-s1-5195171/witnesses-say-i...

2: https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/08/1165552

3: https://www.democracynow.org/2024/8/8/welcome_to_hell_btsele...

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:08PM (#45932235)
Hamas is is a totalitarian theocracy that kills opponents to it.
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by ImPostingOnHN on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:09PM (#45932241)
sounds like israel but with less torturing, killing, and genocide
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:13PM (#45932265)
Why do Jews make people so irrational?
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by ImPostingOnHN on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:14PM (#45932277)
Are you sure you aren't looking for stormfront or elmu's twitter, rather than HN? It's not nice for you to comment on my jewish faith (or anybody else's) in such a negative manner.

But I didn't interpret your posts as irrational anyways. You are pretty coherent, just disagreeable in your religious discrimination against jews.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by LightBug1 on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:47PM (#45932568)
Irrational? That's like saying the Allies response to the Nazi's was irrational.

Come to think of it, maybe that's the solution. After WW2 the Allies "DeNazified" Germany by dismantling Nazi organizations, removing Nazis from public life, and trying prominent war criminals.

It also included symbolic actions like changing street names, as well as re-educating the German population in democratic values.

I'm keenly aware that there are significant sections of Israel and non-Israeli Jews who stand shoulder to shoulder fighting against what is happening in Israel.

But it's not enough. Israel should go through a process similar to DeNazification.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by immibis on Friday November 14, 2025 @07:27PM (#45933863)
I live in Germany and I can tell you German denazification was a complete failure. Yes they're not run by a party calling itself NSDAP. Yes there haven't been concentration camps. Yes everyone knows you have to protect Jews. But the underlying feelings are still there - they're just directed towards different groups. Germany is inching closer to doing it again with Muslims.
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by LightBug1 on Saturday November 15, 2025 @05:49AM (#45936550)
Interesting perspective. However (and give me some rope here), I'd still argue that, somehow, Germany emerged from WW2, eventually, as a relatively sane and democratic country compared to where it had been during and prior to the war. So it wasn't a complete failure.

All countries, as we're sadly finding out now, have a nasty undercurrent. Particularly now, but nothing compared to Nazi Germany in terms of its ideological underpinnings.

However, the indiscriminate hatred, dehumanisation, and, yes, genocide on display from Israel echoes what I've studied in Hitlers Germany.

And so, again, I'll argue Israel needs a similar program of DeNazification. I don't know how you get there, because they haven't been "defeated" and are in fact being supported. But that is what is needed in Israel.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Saturday November 15, 2025 @12:09PM (#45938861)
Palestinians need an equivalent purging of their unattainable goal of defeating Israel with force.
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by LightBug1 on Sunday November 16, 2025 @03:38AM (#45943621)
"Equivalent"...

So it sounds like we're in agreement that Israel needs a DeNazification-style purge also.

I think we're getting somewhere.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Sunday November 16, 2025 @01:28PM (#45947231)
The use of the term Nazi is deeply stupid. But Israel does need to chill a bit and care more about their global PR. But they are surrounded by countries that really DO want to destroy them so I can understand why they are so trigger happy. The way they destroyed Hezbollah was brilliant. The Hamas charter is a giant Islamist Jew-hating rant.
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by LightBug1 on Sunday November 16, 2025 @02:54PM (#45947884)
"DeNazification-style"...

You really seem to have a comprehension issue. Is it intentional?

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by api on Sunday November 16, 2025 @01:30PM (#45947243)
It’s hard for me not to have a “black pilled” view of this region. They’ll never have peace until they actually want it. There’s too many nuts on every side whose whole purpose for living is to see anyone who isn’t just like them dead.

Unfortunately the regular civilian who live in this region suffer for it. The only way out I can see would be some kind of cross border cross culture mass uprising against all the fanatics and those who fund and enable them.

It should also serve as a warning for us. We can have peace and prosperity because we have, as a culture, managed to restrain these kinds of impulses. We flirt with hyper polarization and fanatical ideologies at our own peril. Those who promote this stuff for short term political or economic gain should be compared, maybe, to people playing around with dangerous gain of function research on disease organisms. This stuff takes hold and our countries will look like the war zones of the Middle East.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Monday November 17, 2025 @02:42PM (#45957367)
People really like to gloss over how deeply rooted Jew hatred is in Islam. The Koran contains blatant hate speech against Jews and this is the primary reason why Muslims resent the existence of Israel so irrationally
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by immibis on Monday November 17, 2025 @06:12PM (#45959523)
It's interesting how this always comes up one way and not the other way around, as if it's asymmetric.
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @03:15AM (#45962628)
Because it isn't symmetric at all. Mohamed added all the of hate speech about Jews because they sensibly didn't believe he was a prophet. It is remarkably similar to how L Ron Hubbard taught his followers to hate Psychologists because they rightly called him out for his bullshit.
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by immibis on Saturday November 15, 2025 @01:08PM (#45939323)
> Particularly now, but nothing compared to Nazi Germany

This statement is copium, and part of the problem. The first half of Nazi Germany was nothing compared to the second half. Hitler was chancellor for 11 years, and every year was worse than the one before. The war and the Holocaust only happened towards the end. And the trajectory the USA has been going on so far is not dissimilar to the first half of the Nazis.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Friday November 14, 2025 @08:39PM (#45934291)
Hamas's explicit goal is to destroy Israel.
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by LightBug1 on Saturday November 15, 2025 @05:52AM (#45936561)
And? ... do you expect me to take that as justification for what has gone on?

/Rhetorical.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Saturday November 15, 2025 @12:08PM (#45938854)
Do you support Hamas's explicit goal to destroy Israel?
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by LightBug1 on Saturday November 15, 2025 @04:38PM (#45940799)
No. Do you?

And this is what you dickheads always do. Answer a question you won't answer with another (in this case, extremely dumbass) question.

I'll try again ... do you expect me to take that as justification for what has gone on?

Though you'll forgive me for not caring for your answer considering your performance thus far.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by clanky on Friday November 14, 2025 @04:35PM (#45932470)
Hamas is killing traitors from criminal gangs who aligned with Israel during the conflict in the hopes of getting their 30 pieces of silver.
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Friday November 14, 2025 @08:39PM (#45934287)
Hamas supporters like you really make my skin crawl. Remember when they massacred hundreds of people at a concert and paraded the body of a young German woman they murdered like a hunting trophy? Is that what you support?
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by ImPostingOnHN on Saturday November 15, 2025 @09:32AM (#45937726)
If you're criticized by someone who supports israel's terroristic raping, torturing, killing, and genocide of innocent civilians, that's a strong indication that you're in the right, since they're in the wrong.

The critic can pretend to be as offended as much as they want, but since they're supporting israel's terroristic raping, torturing, killing, and genocide of innocent civilians (an act far worse than the one they're criticizing), the criticism rings hollow: they don't actually care about innocent civilians, only about their "side" getting everything it wants.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Saturday November 15, 2025 @10:06AM (#45937908)
No sane person is "pretending" to be offended by the despicable actions of Hamas on Oct 7 2023. Even if Israel is committing war crimes (a reasonable position to argue), that doesn't make Hamas not a totalitarian theocracy that kills its opponents. These facts can coexist. Refusing to acknowledge Hamas's nature while condemning Israel's actions isn't moral clarity it's selective blindness.You're claiming moral authority to dismiss criticism by asserting I support worse actions committed by Israel, while simultaneously excusing far worse actions by Hamas. This is just "whataboutism" and it just attempts to silence criticism through tu quoque reasoning. This means neither side's conduct gets properly examined. Massacring concert-goers, taking civilian hostages, and using rape as a weapon of war are either categorically wrong or they're not. If Israel's killing of civilians delegitimizes its supporters' moral standing, then Hamas's deliberate targeting of civilians on Oct 7 2023 equally delegitimizes yours. You can't claim the moral high ground while excusing incredibly evil actions when they are committed by Hamas. You remind me strongly of Trump supporters who support him when he does exactly the same things they criticized Obama and Biden for doing.
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by ImPostingOnHN on Saturday November 15, 2025 @10:12AM (#45937947)
> No sane person is "pretending" to be offended by the despicable actions of Hamas on Oct 7 2023

Interesting how your memory starts and stops at that very moment, ignoring israel's terroristic hostage-taking, raping, torturing, killing, and genocide, which happened before and after that date, in greater numbers.

To me, that sort of whataboutism when deflecting the criticism of israel which was the original topic, indicates the speaker doesn't actually care about innocent civilians, unless they are israeli. Indeed, refusing to acknowledge israel's nature while trying to redirect to someone else's actions is selective blindness.

Massacring children, taking civilian hostages, using rape as a weapon of war, engaging in war crimes, engaging in crimes against humanity, and engaging in genocide (all of which israel did and is doing) are either categorically wrong or they're not, regardless of what you think of hamas or any other 3rd party.

You can't claim the moral high ground while excusing incredibly evil actions when they are committed by israel (actions which are even more incredibly evil than those of hamas). You remind me strongly of trump supporters who support him when he does exactly the same things, and much worse things, than those they criticized Obama and Biden for doing.

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Saturday November 15, 2025 @11:53AM (#45938719)
"in greater numbers."

Prove it

Hamas's explicit goal is the destruction of Israel and creating an Islamic state to replace it. Do you support this? What is your ideal solution to the conflict?

Hamas is essentially a less ambitious ISIS. Hamas similarities to ISIS:

-Sunni Islamist organizations seeking Sharia-based states

-Totalitarian control in their territories

-Systematic killing of political opponents and "collaborators"

-Rejection of democratic governance

-Religious police and morality enforcement

-Deliberate targeting of civilians as strategy

-Suppression of media and free expression

-Use of torture and extrajudicial execution

Not a great moral wagon to hitch yourself to

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by ImPostingOnHN on Sunday November 16, 2025 @09:04AM (#45945229)
> [person complaining about whataboutism proceeds to make a post consisting entirely of whataboutism to distract from the topic of israel]

Considering israel is guilty of everything you listed and worse (including genocide), and in greater amounts, this isn't even a good 'whataboutism' from you. Indeed, no amount of whataboutism, nothing hamas has done or can do justifies israel's crimes. Either way, try to stay on topic (israel) rather than engaging in whataboutism (deflecting from israel with 'whatabout hamas!?') and spreading anti-jewish slurs.

By the way, I think our fellow poster is still waiting for an answer from you here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45940799

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Sunday November 16, 2025 @10:38AM (#45945867)
Please stop ignoring everything I say about Hamas with "Israel bad too". Do you or do you NOT want Hamas to replace Israel with a ISIS style Islamic state, as that is their goal. Have you ever read their insane rant of a Charter?
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by ImPostingOnHN on Sunday November 16, 2025 @10:55AM (#45945991)
First, I ask that you please stop ignoring everything everyone is saying about israel with "hamas bad too" [0][1][2][3].

Remember, israel was the topic until someone engaged in whataboutism w/r/t hamas. 'But hamas' here, on the topic of israel's bad behavior, is a tu quoque fallacy. Someone's bad behavior cannot be solely defended on the basis of 'but so and so did X', and israel's behavior in particular (oppression, civilian kidnapping, rape, torture, mass killing, collective punishment, crimes against humanity, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, and genocide) is indefensible, period.

Do you or do you NOT want israel to continue their campaign of oppression, civilian kidnapping, rape, torture, mass killing, collective punishment, crimes against humanity, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, and genocide?

Have you ever heard the insane rants of their leaders about Palestine and innocent Palestinian civilians [4]? It's the same language hitler used to describe jews like myself, and advocate for our extermination: "human animals"; "it is an entire nation out there that is responsible"; "they should starve to death"; "we must make sure that Gaza is empty of Gazans". That's bad!

As a kid visiting Holocaust museums, I was taught the lessons of "never again", and recognized that it meant for all people. Let's all learn from that horrible genocide, and stop this one being perpetrated by israel.

0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45938854

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45932235

2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45934291

3: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45934210

4: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/05/21/i...

Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Friday November 21, 2025 @03:12AM (#46002333)
Hamas is is a totalitarian theocracy that kills opponents to it.
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by ImPostingOnHN on Sunday November 23, 2025 @09:25PM (#46029696)
more whataboutism defending israel
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by UltraSane on Monday November 24, 2025 @11:32PM (#46042359)
Hamas is is a totalitarian theocracy that kills opponents to it.They would happily kill you.
Re:Bitchat for Gaza – messaging without internet by nrhrjrjrjtntbt on Friday November 14, 2025 @06:54PM (#45933596)
Use that gun and Israel defends itself. By killing 100 civilians in an appartment complex with an Americian bomb.