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Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by o11c on Friday November 07, 2025 @04:43PM (#45851477)
This, like many fonts, fails to handle vertical arrows:

  |    ^
  v    |
Note that the raised appearance of `^` exists for compatibility with typewriters that use the backspace key to use it as a circumflex accent over lowercase letters. This is doubly obsolete today (we have real combined characters and can use them on uppercase). This is one of those cases where the name originally used for the character in various standards is in conflict with the way people actually have come to use it.

The bottom of the independent caret should be lower, roughly symmetrical to the letter `v` (this is not traditionally a goal). The top should still reach the height of a capital letter, but the bottom should descend into the lowercase letter area - for many fonts, perhaps to the level of the horizontal part of a lowercase `e` (is there a typographical term for this?)? For fonts where the x-height is half of the cap-height, there might be no overlap with the lowercase letter, though it still doesn't need to worry about leaving space.

The bottom of the caret is, however, higher than the mathematical "and" sign ∧, which rests on the baseline (and usually does not reach full height) or the Greek capital lambda `Λ` which is full height.

Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by sevg on Friday November 07, 2025 @06:31PM (#45852570)
> the way people actually have come to use it

I have never seen anyone use it as part of an up arrow spread across two lines in the way that you’re suggesting. So I don’t really understand your point.

Ok it’s not symmetrical, but I don’t buy your argument that it _should_ be (or that it’s a reasonable complaint to make about a font).

Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by normie3000 on Friday November 07, 2025 @09:39PM (#45853618)
> I have never seen anyone use it as part of an up arrow spread across two lines in the way that you’re suggesting.

You've never heard of "caret and stick"?

Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by Culonavirus on Saturday November 08, 2025 @04:01AM (#45855286)
Totally. Ultra niche edge case nonsense.
Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by pessimizer on Saturday November 08, 2025 @03:56PM (#45859895)
Rust compiler error output certainly uses a lot of vertical arrows. But it also highlights the fact that the caret is often used to highlight characters on the line above, and if it were lower it would be worse at doing that.

I do hate this asymmetry when I'm trying to do an ASCII flowchart of some sort.

But I'd also like to add that calling it an unreasonable complaint sounds a little hysterical. It's just a complaint. It's also a clear one, and of obvious use.

Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by munchler on Friday November 07, 2025 @04:51PM (#45851572)
Your point about the caret is interesting, but I'm a bit dubious about using them for vertical arrows. I don't think it would be practical to type this combination in one go, since the two symbols would be on two separate lines. For the upward arrow, are you suggesting caret-return-space-space-space-...-vertical bar?

Are there any programming languages that use vertical arrows? Do they appear on one line or two?

Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by o11c on Friday November 07, 2025 @05:34PM (#45852013)
> Are there any programming languages that use vertical arrows? Do they appear on one line or two?

Befunge (1993; many later languages were inspired by it) uses just the ASCII arrowheads. The arrow tail is more likely to exist in doc comments.

Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by leephillips on Friday November 07, 2025 @05:35PM (#45852032)
APL
Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by sayyadirfanali on Saturday November 08, 2025 @12:46AM (#45854472)
i don't think that qualifies. because the alignment issue is about multi-line alignment of upward arrows. APL usage is clearly meant to be covered by some single Unicode glyph.
Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by leephillips on Saturday November 08, 2025 @09:02AM (#45856720)
Ah, yes, I see now. I can’t imagine using a programming language where I had to compose symbols vertically. I don’t know if any such infernal language exists, and I don’t understand why o11c thinks it matters.
Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by tln on Friday November 07, 2025 @04:56PM (#45851623)
Are you trying to get a ligature that crosses lines?

You could maybe try U+2303 (⌃) for the up arrowhead, but why not just use U+2191 (↑) for the standard arrow?

The crossbar height of lowercase letters is not a common typographical reference point...

Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by o11c on Friday November 07, 2025 @05:32PM (#45851985)
I don't care about ligatures, just symmetry.
Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by michaelcampbell on Sunday November 09, 2025 @04:09AM (#45864142)
That's fine I guess. Some audiophiles don't care about music, just sound.
Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by sayyadirfanali on Friday November 07, 2025 @04:53PM (#45851595)
thanks for pointing it out. as i mention below in a comment, there are bound to be many combinations which don't align (especially vertical ones). i would ideally tell you to invoke a feature request but i am not sure this esoteric combination could even be detected in a contextual alternate rule (which Myna doesn't support anyways for now).

beside if i may say so in my defense, the comparison is a bit unfair as a V (a full letter) is being compared to a caret (almost a superscript symbol). i have broken many typographical conventions but it won't make sense to break programmatic convention of the caret operator just for the alignment of the vertical arrows.

Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by pessimizer on Saturday November 08, 2025 @04:04PM (#45859956)
> won't make sense to break programmatic convention of the caret operator

I don't know why the elevated position of the caret is sacred, other than to use as an accent mark. It could cause confusion with the ∧ (AND).

Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by imiric on Friday November 07, 2025 @05:22PM (#45851876)
I don't see such a niche use case as a design failure.

By your logic, the lowercase "v" should extend even higher to meet the pipe. The caret has conventionally been higher for a long time, and IMO would look out of place making it the inverse "v".

If you want arrows, just use U+2191 and U+2193.

Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by Avshalom on Friday November 07, 2025 @07:11PM (#45852830)
Come to APL we have ↑↓
Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by Aurornis on Saturday November 08, 2025 @01:45AM (#45854670)
> Note that the raised appearance of `^` exists for compatibility with typewriters that use the backspace key to use it as a circumflex accent over lowercase letters. This is doubly obsolete today

The origins don’t really matter at this point. That’s what the character looks like and it’s what everyone expects.

Your use case is extremely niche. Making a font choice for that specific double-line situation would alienate everyone else who just wants the ^ to look like a ^.

Like others suggested, just use the Unicode arrows if you want arrows. Let the ^ be a classic ^.

It’s really disappointing when I find a new font that seems interesting until I encounter one weird design choice that makes it surprising to read. Fonts should be boring, typical, and follow what your brain expects to see, not trying to erase decades of typography norms and start something new for one common character.

Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by eviks on Saturday November 08, 2025 @02:11AM (#45854785)
> Fonts should be boring, typical, and follow what your brain expects to see

So you're ok with permanent confusion of 0 vs O because "boring/expected" doesn't add a dot for zero?

> erase decades of typography norms and

This is not (such) a (n absolute) thing, there are different contradictory norms that persist for decades, just like in and artistic (though not only) field, so at a practical level this offers no guidance for any specific decision, you'd have to actually consider it in that specific case to see whether it makes sense

Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by Aurornis on Saturday November 08, 2025 @10:38AM (#45857406)
> So you're ok with permanent confusion of 0 vs O because "boring/expected" doesn't add a dot for zero?

0 and O are not actually confusing in any of the fonts I use. As I’m typing this comment without any custom font changes, the 0 has a slash through it. In other fonts I use there’s an option to add a dot. These are all normal and common.

Redrawing the ^ character to not be elevated would be unexpected.

> This is not (such) a (n absolute) thing, there are different contradictory norms that persist for decades,

Fonts are expected to show common characters as those character, not something different to satisfy a singular edge case at the expense of every common use case.

If someone wants vertical arrows they should use Unicode vertical arrows, not try to force everyone looking for a ^ character to see something unusual.

Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by eviks on Saturday November 08, 2025 @11:10AM (#45857675)
> in any of the fonts I use

But we're not talking about you, are we? You made a very general point, so look around... generally

> These are all normal and common.

Again, look around at most popular fonts in this wor(l)d, see how few of them have it. It's only "normal and common" in a small niche of code fonts. At most popular fonts would differentiate width, but that is a far legibility cry from the "exicting" innovation of using a dot. But that would be a surprising experience to most of the users because it's a rare occurence, so breaks your "be boring" maxim.

> Fonts are expected to show common characters as those character

In the case of 0 "as those characters" means an empty oval, so adding a dot/cross is "something differnt to satisfy a singular edge case" of basic legibility at the expense of "every common use case" of confused ovals between 0oO

Also, I finally looked into more details of the ^ and even more confused by your comments: one of the most popular fonts - Verdana - has ^ exactly like described by the OP - top reaching the top of U and bottom reaching the horizontal line in e. Similar with Arial, ony it raises higher than U Same in a popular code font Source Code Pro

So all your "don't mess with expectactions" is made up, they do not exist because that symbol is already popularly different, so there is no expectation that it's a tiny hat!!!

Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by sayyadirfanali on Saturday November 08, 2025 @02:24AM (#45854837)
any particular glyph you find surprising in Myna? feel free to open a feature request.
Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by Aurornis on Saturday November 08, 2025 @10:35AM (#45857384)
None, and that’s the great feature about it.

The comment above requesting that ^ be turned into something unexpected would have been a negative, but thankfully it’s not a feature of the font.

Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by eviks on Saturday November 08, 2025 @02:06AM (#45854760)
Doesn't raised appearance also exist for compatibility with math exponentiation? Do still not obsolete
Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by rbanffy on Saturday November 08, 2025 @05:57AM (#45855808)
Those symbols were never intended to be used as arrows. Every modern programming language today can use Unicode at least in comments, and there are extensive groups of characters for box and arrow drawings.
Re:Myna: Monospace typeface designed for symbol-heavy progra... by procaryote on Tuesday November 11, 2025 @02:29AM (#45884929)
Not a solution to your issue but as my main use of arrows is in documentation I've just mapped ↓ ↑ → ← to a covenient place on my keyboard. It's pretty at least

It allows comments to indicate the thing they're talking about ↑

Or logical → implications