Re:Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that riva...
by ainch on Sunday November 02, 2025 @03:19PM
(#45793054)
Generally you train each expert simultaneously. The benefit of MoEs is that you get cheap inference because you only use the active expert parameters, which constitute a small fraction of the total parameter count. For example Deepseek R1 (which is especially sparse) only uses 1/18th of the total parameters per-query.
Re:Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that riva...
by pama on Sunday November 02, 2025 @08:35PM
(#45795071)
> only uses 1/18th of the total parameters per-query.
only uses 1/18th of the total parameters per token. It may use the large fraction of them in a single query.
Re:Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that riva...
by ainch on Monday November 03, 2025 @02:58PM
(#45803670)
That's a good correction, thanks.
Re:Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that riva...
by idiotsecant on Sunday November 02, 2025 @02:53PM
(#45792892)
I think it's the exact opposite - you don't specifically train each 'expert' to be a SME at something. Each of the experts is a generalist but becomes better at portions of tasks in a distributed way. There is no 'best baker', but things evolve toward 'best applier of flour', 'best kneader', etc. I think explicitly domain-trained experts are pretty uncommon in modern schemes.
Re:Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that riva...
by viraptor on Sunday November 02, 2025 @03:35PM
(#45793193)
That's not entirely correct. Most of moe right now are fully balanced, but there is an idea of a domain expert moe where the training benefits fewer switches. https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.07490
Re:Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that riva...
by idiotsecant on Monday November 03, 2025 @08:23AM
(#45798699)
Yes, explicitly trained experts were a thing for a little while, but not anymore. Yet another application of the Hard Lesson.
That you can individually train and improve smaller segments as necessary