Re:Hard Rust requirements from May onward for all Debian ports
by mattbee on Saturday November 01, 2025 @01:38PM
(#45783579)
The Fil-C project ( https://fil-c.org/ ) seems like a more pragmatic way to deal with C security holes in old, well-loved userspace code. It effectively turns C into a managed language rather than a bare metal one, seems to remove a lot of the impetus to rewrite.
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Re:Hard Rust requirements from May onward for all Debian ports
by gpm on Saturday November 01, 2025 @02:02PM
(#45783824)
I really like the idea of Fil-C for derisking legacy code, but
- It's not an option for debian core infrastructure until it supports at least the same platforms debian does (arm, riscv, etc) and it currently only supports x86_64.
- It doesn't turn C into a modern language, since it looks like there's active development here getting the productivity benefits of moving away from C is likely still worth it.
Re:Hard Rust requirements from May onward for all Debian ports
by cma on Saturday November 01, 2025 @05:05PM
(#45785342)
If C isn't going away yet, just doing filc for x84_64 might still be a big win as it could catch a lot of stuff at runtime for x84_64 users that can then be fixed for everyone.
Re:Hard Rust requirements from May onward for all Debian ports
by pjmlp on Saturday November 01, 2025 @11:03PM
(#45787556)
Given that a few languages from similar timeframe are still around, even if with fewer users, it is guaranteed to stay around as long as current computing models stay relevant.
Re:Hard Rust requirements from May onward for all Debian ports
by tialaramex on Saturday November 01, 2025 @01:47PM
(#45783659)
If you're single platform (Fil-C is x86-64 only), if the program is finished (Fil-C doesn't magically make maintaining a C project any easier to handle) and if performance isn't relevant (Fil-C is and despite its originator's confidence always will be bigger and slower than what you have today) then I agree.
Re:Hard Rust requirements from May onward for all Debian ports
by loeg on Saturday November 01, 2025 @01:48PM
(#45783673)
Making core package infrastructure 10x slower doesn't seem especially pragmatic.
Re:Hard Rust requirements from May onward for all Debian ports
by mattbee on Saturday November 01, 2025 @02:41PM
(#45784166)
The author's benchmarks suggest 10× would be a pathological case!
But even so - what price correct & secure software? We all lost a tonne of performance overnight when we applied the first Meltdown and Spectre workarounds. This doesn't seem much different.
Re:Hard Rust requirements from May onward for all Debian ports
by loeg on Saturday November 01, 2025 @03:04PM
(#45784369)
We have an alternative that isn't 10x slower, and comes with many other benefits (Rust). The only cost is losing hardware support for some very obsolete and very unpopular platforms. (Nevermind that Fil-C's hardware support is narrower than Rust's.)
Re:Hard Rust requirements from May onward for all Debian ports
by ChocolateGod on Saturday November 01, 2025 @09:05PM
(#45787011)
Rust doesn't automatically add memory safety to all existing C code, which will need to be maintained for decades, Fil-C nearly does and its still early days.
> We have an alternative that isn't 10x slower, and comes with many other benefits
Anyone involved with development around a fruity company would say Swift ;)
Re:Hard Rust requirements from May onward for all Debian ports
by loeg on Sunday November 02, 2025 @02:16AM
(#45788444)
I don't get the impression the Swift team is especially interested in use cases outside of OS X and iOS. (The context here is Debian.)
Re:Hard Rust requirements from May onward for all Debian ports
by ChocolateGod on Sunday November 02, 2025 @07:05AM
(#45789713)
There seems to be a push to get Swift outside of just Apples platforms, namely Linux and Android support and backend micro service developnent.