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Re:Sequoia COO quit over Shaun Maguire's comments about Mamdani by _DeadFred_ on Wednesday October 22, 2025 @09:31PM (#45677211)
Yes exactly! Thank you! We just had a national debate on Christianity so we could understand the takes that certain people were coming from (which were in fact horrible positions, so it's very important that they defined their position). Certain segments of Christianity have views that to me make them unelectable. And that is super important to know/understand. But I don't get to understand/we don't get to challenge a Muslim person's belief like that because it is somehow racist to ask.

I'm not claiming it's a Muslim problem. I talk about Christians, Scientologists, Mormons, heck even Americans and understanding how to reconcile our founding as a nation versus our beliefs now. I do understand how awkward it is because their religion literally says it is the perfect word of God. I understand that makes it complex for them. But that doesn't mean we don't need to understand. I don't know what it means to be a follower of Islam. But I do know what their perfect word of God says, and some of it is really bad stuff (just like the pre-Jesus Christian old testament stuff, yikes). I do know some horrible things about their founder, and I think it's reasonable to ask what those horrible things mean to a follower, just like calling out that my nation of freedom was founded on racism and slavery by men who raped their underage slaves. There is a taint to both, but I don't get to ask how a Muslim reconciles that taint, while I can challenge American taint. I don't know how to operate without being able to challenge, and get responses, and understand. Just like we had a Christian debate, or we debate what the founding of our nation means we should encourage the discussion and deeper understanding.

I just want the debate you yourself reference that we just had on Christianity. It's fair to want to understand, but for some reason we don't get to ask/challenge Muslims like we do the Christians, Scientologists, etc. Even though as you point out the discussion can be very eye opening.

Until we can have these discussions, people are going to have questions about followers of a religion that says the perfect word of God is that you can lie to people of other religions. People are going to question a religion that teaches sex, sex slaves, the inability of the being you desire in heaven to say no being rewards for men.

Re:Sequoia COO quit over Shaun Maguire's comments about Mamdani by acdha on Wednesday October 22, 2025 @10:17PM (#45677447)
> Certain segments of Christianity have views that to me make them unelectable. And that is super important to know/understand. But I don't get to understand/we don't get to challenge a Muslim person's belief like that because it is somehow racist to ask.

I don't see anyone saying it's unfair to talk about the beliefs a specific Muslim candidate has expressed but Maguire wasn't talking about anything Mamdani has said. He made a sweeping claim about an entire culture, saying they considered it a virtue to lie when that is in fact broadly condemned. He almost certainly based that belief on propaganda about the concept of taqiyya which has been swirling around right-wing circles for the last couple of decades. That concept refers to a narrow exception allowing Muslims to conceal or disavow their religious beliefs when they fear for their safety. The term is derived from a root meaning of caution or fear, and dates back to when Islam was a minority religion whose followers had real examples of recantations forced under torture. Christians active in right-wing politics have claimed that it is both broadly practiced and interpreted to allow lying to spread Islam itself despite limited evidence and strident disagreement by actual scholars – there's a good summary here with a lot of links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya#Contemporary_debate

This is about as fair as finding a Seven Mountains Dominionist preacher who says that Christians need to control all aspects of society, claiming that they speak for all Christians, and then claiming that belief is secretly shared by a Christian political candidate who has never voiced supported for that sect and must override all of their stated views or past actions.

I'm an atheist now so I don't have a god in this fight but I've known enough people of each of the Abrahamic religions that I wouldn't make a general criticism of any individual except based on things they personally said or did.

Re:Sequoia COO quit over Shaun Maguire's comments about Mamdani by _DeadFred_ on Wednesday October 22, 2025 @11:16PM (#45677817)
Exactly! Because we can't ask Muslims politicians about their religion or their positions/interpretations, we depend on others than the actual individual we know about to try and explain, which ends up worse and potentially misinformed.

Because Muslims believe in the Quran is the perfect word of God, we don't really have definitions like a liberal Pelosi style Christian (except Sufism maybe?) that believe abortion should be legal and a Southern Baptist style Christian whose beliefs, to me, preclude them from being someone I would vote for.

I theoretically grew up Catholic (when visiting grandma) so I know the differences in Christians and pretty quickly understand a person's basic positions, but I have no way to know that with Muslim candidates. Add in that Islam says the Quran is absolute truth/Gods word I have to assume someone who says they are Muslim are the equivalent of Christian fundamentalists because they can't just say a Muslim version of Pelosi/San Francisco Christian.

Thank you for helping expound on this. We need to be able to discuss religious positions with Muslims. Without that, we default to our understanding of the most fundamentalist interpretation. Based on the religions promotion of sex/sex slaves as rewards I have real questions/concerns that currently aren't allowed to be asked/answered.

Neither wanting to understand a politician's personal position, nor defaulting to an interpretation (even the most strictly fundamentalist possible take) without having more details are racist. They are both very valid. I default to assuming a Christian politician is a fundamentalist pretty quickly when they won't expand on their positions. That isn't racism either.

I don't make assumptions about individuals, but I definately make assumptions about politicians all the time based on the limited knowledge I have access to, especially politicians that claim to be followers of a religion.

Personally I think Mamdani is an excellent candidate and hope he wins. But I wish we could have some much needed discussions, like we can about Christian candidates. We need more dialog, less falling back to wikipedia or potentially anti-Muslim based interpretations. More humanity, less 'you can't ask that' when we have asked about religion at least my life. Carter's religion was core to his political 'being'. I don't think that assertion made was racist absent more context from the individual. Even the Wikipedia page you cite says:

"In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly."

We live in a culture that outnumbers Muslims. This says to me their religion allows them to lie/fake believing in the social norms/fake being friendly.

The same people downvoting me here I am sure feel it is required Jewish people state their Israel positions in this current environment in a way they don't non-jewish, or call out Jewish politicians that don't publically stake out positions. Questioning what they believe is a basic part of how we approach politicians with public religious positions.

Re:Sequoia COO quit over Shaun Maguire's comments about Mamdani by acdha on Thursday October 23, 2025 @08:19AM (#45680993)
> Because we can't ask Muslims politicians about their religion or their positions/interpretations, we depend on others than the actual individual we know about to try and explain, which ends up worse and potentially misinformed.

Who specifically is saying that we can’t ask them? You’ve made that claim repeatedly but I don’t see anyone saying it’s inappropriate to ask a candidate what they believe on topics relevant to their office. The condemnation is about sweeping assertions about large heterogeneous groups.